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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 November 2025
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Displaying 1001 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Daniel Johnson

So in order to understand the numbers and financial implications of what is involved in setting up the new organisation, you needed to, in your words, find “the right officials” and ask them the right questions. Would all 129 MSPs in the Parliament necessarily know to do that? We are being asked to approve the bill on the basis of the documentation, not conversations with officials.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Daniel Johnson

Mark Taylor, do you agree? Is there sufficient clarity on the impact of demographics?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Daniel Johnson

Mark Taylor and Emma Congreve have talked about the lack of clarity around why what is proposed will improve things. Hannah Tweed and Ralph Roberts, could you elaborate on that? Currently, decisions around social care services are being made by local authorities and health boards separately and collectively through integration joint boards. The implication is that we need an independent decision maker that is separate from local authorities and health boards—if that is not the implication, I do not know how to interpret the Government’s plans. Do you think that that is the problem? Do we need an independent decision maker of that sort?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Daniel Johnson

You are correct. I might have phrased my question unfairly, so I will put it another way. Is the problem about where we are making decisions? If we are going to spend £500 million on improving social care, does there need to be a separate decision-making body or do you think that we should look elsewhere for the solution?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Daniel Johnson

Ralph Roberts, do you agree with what Hannah Tweed has said about reflecting the voices of users? Do you think that there has been sufficient analysis of international comparisons with regard to what has been done elsewhere, what works and what the dynamics are?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Daniel Johnson

I have a supplementary question for Mark Taylor. The IT question is potentially significant. To look at recent projects, Social Security Scotland has to date spent £250 million setting up its IT, and Police Scotland estimates that it needs to spend around £300 million on its computer systems. Those are all records systems that hold information on citizens. Is that the scale of magnitude that we should be looking at, and is Audit Scotland aware of any other recent IT systems that we could look at to find analogues?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Daniel Johnson

That is diplomatic.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 1 November 2022

Daniel Johnson

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development has done a substantial bit of work on the issue of the ageing population across the industrialised economies. Its reports show that the approach that has been taken in countries that have undertaken reform—notably Japan, the Netherlands and Finland—involves enhancing the powers at a municipal level for configuring and delivering social care services. It strikes me that the bill is taking the opposite approach, and is going up a layer. Has it been explained to you why the Scottish Government is taking a centralising approach, rather than pushing the powers further down? What do you think is the appropriate level for the decisions to be taken?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Daniel Johnson

Thank you. When we were in private session, I assured colleagues that I would be strict and fair with regard to time allocations, so I have to hand over to others at this point.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Public Finances 2023-24 (Impact of Cost of Living and Public Service Reform)

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Daniel Johnson

Thank you, Deputy First Minister. I agree with your position that, as far as possible, we should carry on with our usual budget processes. Consistency, clarity and certainty are all vital components of prudent and responsible budget setting.

I want to ask about a couple of points for clarification. Has the Government had communication or correspondence with the Scottish Fiscal Commission regarding the level of data that it has, or expects to have, and whether it feels equipped to carry out the budget forecast?

Also, you questioned whether the UK Government’s fiscal plans might need revising. Are there thoughts about potentially having to revise the Scottish Government’s resource spending review in the light of UK Government fiscal changes, and is there a mechanism for doing so?