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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 4 November 2025
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Displaying 978 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Daniel Johnson

Yes—perhaps that is something for debate this afternoon.

I want to follow on from points that have been raised by Murdo Fraser and Lorna Slater. The most important thing, as you have been seeking to stress, is that it is important to compare apples with apples and to look at things over the longer term. It is interesting that the Scottish Government is presenting the budget in a different way this year, using outturn figures for 2023-24.

The total budget lines under your responsibility show a fall from £1.9 billion to £1.3 billion, but that is largely because of the UK-funded annually managed expenditure of £519 million that occurred in 2023-24. I ask this on the basis of clarification, so that we have this right. AME is not directly at the Scottish Government’s discretion; as I understand it, it is largely spending on behalf of the UK Government. Is there an explanation of what that change was—just so that we are clear about how to compare the figures?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Daniel Johnson

For the avoidance of doubt, the budget for employability in 2024-25, as passed, was £102.9 million and, according to the budget document that was published, you spent £92.3 million. Is that correct?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Daniel Johnson

Perfect.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is a really helpful insight. Just to—

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Daniel Johnson

I was just going to collapse into the next area about dealing with the specific powers—-

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Daniel Johnson

Okay.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Daniel Johnson

Many of my questions have been touched on, so what I say might be a little repetitious. However, I will try to avoid that.

First of all, though, I would like to start almost from the beginning and understand your roles a bit more. You are both lawyers who sit in the Cabinet Office and work across Whitehall departments. Do you typically work directly with ministers and other civil servants? Can you describe the function of your office and how you interact with other parts of Government?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Daniel Johnson

What I am really interested in is whether there is any possibility of sharing best practice. Obviously the jurisdictions are different, but drafting is drafting and, in a sense, lots of different people are seeking to do the same job of translating policy intent into good law. Is there any possibility of sharing best practice, both generally and more specifically with regard to delegated and Henry VIII powers? I keep saying “Henry VIII” but that is, as the previous panel pointed out, a pejorative term, so perhaps I should say “powers to amend primary legislation”. To what extent does the possibility of sharing best practice exist, and to what extent is there a possibility of exploring that in the future?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Daniel Johnson

That certainly raises an interesting point for me, given that the Scottish Government and, I would imagine, the Welsh Government are former Government departments. Do you have interactions with lawyers from devolved Administrations or do you interact purely with Whitehall departments? I recognise that such interactions might be on a slightly different basis, but if you do have those contacts, in what circumstances do they arise?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 7 January 2025

Daniel Johnson

Finally, I have one slightly cheeky question—well, it is not cheeky but it is slightly less formal. As two drafters speaking to a group of legislators, if you had one plea to legislators on what they should consider when they are thinking about turning policy into codified law, what might that be?