Official Report: search what was said in Parliament
The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Education, Children and Young People Committee
Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge
Meeting date: 27 September 2023
Ruth Maguire
On that specific point, we have heard examples of areas other than teachers where the education budget can be spent. I am not questioning the value of teachers at all; I am just reflecting on the conversation that we have had about attendance and the suggestion that attendance officers, for example, might be helpful to the vulnerable children and families whom we are trying to help. Indeed, what about speech and language therapists? That is another issue that has come to the fore as a result of the pandemic.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge
Meeting date: 27 September 2023
Ruth Maguire
I have a further question about fairness. You might have one local authority with a falling pupil roll that has protected its teacher numbers and another with a rising roll that is having to maintain them. I know that we have the highest pupil teacher ratio, and that is an important measure, but—I am sure that committee members will not mind my using this example—in my local authority area, the pupil roll is falling and the authority is having to maintain teacher numbers. It is, I guess, a difficult issue for people to get their heads around.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge
Meeting date: 27 September 2023
Ruth Maguire
Good morning, cabinet secretary and panel. It is nice to have you with us. As you will see, the committee has been exploring the policy of maintaining and increasing teacher numbers. Last week’s panel gave us some views on that, and members will have heard views from their local authorities, too, but I would like to hear your reflections on two points.
First, this is obviously an input measure. Are such measures the best way of looking at outcomes for children and families? Secondly, I would like to talk about the issue of fairness. What about those local authorities that protected their education budget and have falling pupil rolls? It would be helpful to hear your views on the issue of inputs and outcomes first.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Pre-Budget Scrutiny
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Ruth Maguire
Maybe we can move on to reflections from ADES. Does Carrie Lindsay or Douglas Hutchison want to come in?
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Pre-Budget Scrutiny
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Ruth Maguire
Thank you and good morning.
I would like to talk about teaching and other staffing costs. Kirsty Flanagan mentioned protecting teacher numbers. We have spoken before in the committee about the situation in which pupil rolls are falling in some local authority areas, yet they are expected to maintain teacher numbers. My local authority has also lost attainment challenge funding, which adds additional pressure. Can you speak a little bit about the opportunity costs of having to maintain teacher numbers and what that looks like for children and young people in schools where that is the case?
09:30Education, Children and Young People Committee
Pre-Budget Scrutiny
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Ruth Maguire
I have a couple of questions about children’s services. The first is about the Promise. I am interested in the witnesses’ reflections on the practicalities of delivering the local government elements of the Promise in the current financial context. While you are thinking, I point out that a live issue for the committee is the Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill, which obviously has implications for local government, so perhaps you can speak to that a little.
10:15Education, Children and Young People Committee
Pre-Budget Scrutiny
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Ruth Maguire
There is a reduction in real terms in the expected net spend on children and families social work services in 2023-24 in comparison with the 2019-20 net spend. What might that reduction look like in practice for children and families services and for the children and families who use those services?
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Pre-Budget Scrutiny
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Ruth Maguire
That is interesting. Does Kirsty Flanagan have any comments on that?
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Pre-Budget Scrutiny
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Ruth Maguire
You spoke about Glasgow City Council reducing its education budget. I know that there are other local authorities that have protected the education budget, even throughout these really challenging times. It would be good to hear what, within education, the money could be invested in and what that would look like for children and young people in the education system. To go back to the Verity house agreement and the priorities for us in relation to that, it would be interesting to hear your reflections on where that money might be invested and how that would benefit children and young people.
Education, Children and Young People Committee
Pre-Budget Scrutiny
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Ruth Maguire
Thank you. That is helpful.
Generally, the pay of teachers and local government employees is subject to negotiations between COSLA, local authorities and trade unions. However, in recent years, the Scottish Government has stepped in to fund uplifts in pay. What role is there for the Scottish Government in relation to the pay of local authority workers?
