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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 11 March 2026
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Displaying 2492 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

One of those choices is to maintain direct payments, which the UK Government has said it will phase out. Again, the Subsidy Control Bill could have a serious impact on our ability to do that, or to offer payments through the less favoured area support scheme or some of the coupled support schemes that do not exist elsewhere or in which there might be policy divergence in the future.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

It is about those pieces of legislation together. Ultimately, we are finding that it is huge step backwards from being in the EU, where we had those powers and the freedom to exercise those powers in developing our own policy. The 2020 act and the Subsidy Control Bill remove those powers and put them in the hands of UK ministers, which—as I said in previous responses—undermines the common frameworks process. It was designed to resolve, or to try and work through, some of the policy divergence that we will have in some areas, because it is every devolved Government’s right to set the polices that are right for the people who elect it to that position and who deliver on the commitments that it has set out. In essence, the 2020 act and the Subsidy Control Bill remove our ability to do that, because the ultimate end decision rests with the UK Government. That completely undermines the powers that we have in those devolved areas that are of critical importance for devolved Administrations, and it means that the UK Government can overrule us in devolved areas of policy.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Fisheries is a more complex area in relation to the Subsidy Control Bill. I will bring in Caro Cowan on that point.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

That is not the case with the Subsidy Control Bill, which will open us up to legal challenge from other parts of the UK if we continue to provide the type of income support that I have talked about, because that conflicts with the principles that have been outlined in the bill. That is where the problem lies.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I would be happy to write to the committee outlining our concerns about specific parts of the bill, if you would find that helpful.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I do not know whether there are particular issues in that regard. Perhaps my officials have further information on food regulation.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

That is one area on which I would be happy to follow up with the committee after the meeting.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We also have other important markets to which we now no longer have access, unfortunately, because of Brexit. Again, that is why we had the common frameworks process, with which all Administrations engaged in good faith. That process is about helping to manage policy divergence, which is not a threat to any one Government—there was divergence when we were members of the EU. All that we ask for is the ability for Scotland to continue to do that.

If the Subsidy Control Bill is passed in its current form, it will constrain our policy choices in the future. For example, we have support payments for our less favoured areas that do not exist in other parts of the UK, and our ability to continue to offer such payments might well be put at risk, given the powers in the bill as it is currently drafted.

It is not only the Scottish Government that is raising those concerns; the same concerns have been raised by the Northern Ireland Executive and the Welsh Government. They, too, are seriously concerned about the powers in those two pieces of legislation, which completely undermine the collaborative work that we have all done to establish the frameworks. That might lead the devolved Administrations to lose faith in the process altogether, because the UK Government is trying to retain control of those powers and to constrict our policy-making powers.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

No—that is one area, but it is a fairly substantive area, given the size of the payments involved and the fundamental nature of the support for our whole agricultural sector.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Impact of European Union Exit

Meeting date: 12 January 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We have already committed to maintaining that level of spend throughout this session of Parliament. I know that the committee is aware of the work that is under way with the implementation board to help to design and develop our future policy.

It is not possible for me to give the committee the full financial impact. The problem with the Subsidy Control Bill is that it could constrain our ability to make future policy decisions so, sadly, it is not possible to quantify the impact. When I spoke about figures earlier, I was talking about the scale of the overall investment that we make in our agriculture sector and the fact that our policy choices about how to direct that investment are constrained.