Chamber and committees

Yes, I have hinted that I want to ask about fly-tipping. I am keen to hear from all the witnesses, so do not feel that you have to answer all parts of my question.

What impact will the provisions in the bill have on fly-tipping? Would you like to see anything else in the bill in that regard? Outwith the proposals in the bill, I am keen to hear what else is happening to improve the enforcement and prevention of fly-tipping.

I will start with David Harley, but I am also keen to hear from Nick Halfhide and Iain Gulland, should they have anything to add.

It is reassuring to hear that those provisions are not yet in force. That is quite a long period of time and not everyone who is now on the committee would have been involved in the legislation, so, for the record, what was the first date on which this came to the Government’s attention?

Does that apply to any member of the public in Scotland? Can they get in touch?

I have been listening with interest, but I just wanted to pick up on the theme of single-use items. Single-use nappies, for example, clearly contribute a lot of waste and end up in landfill, and we know that some councils have put in place local small-scale initiatives to improve access to reusable ones. My question is probably best aimed at Iain Gulland. Is there more scope outside the legislation to do more of that locally and to have schemes that can work with nappy libraries, for example, or is there potential for the legislation to put more of a duty on local authorities and other partners to do that in a much more proactive way?

That is helpful. Nick Halfhide, do you want to add any thoughts about the impact of fly-tipping on the environment and wildlife?

Will the member give way on that point?

Colleagues will know that I am not often stuck for words, but Miles Briggs has made a habit of making me cry in Parliament in recent months. I am genuinely grateful to him for bringing the debate to Parliament and for bringing colleagues together, and I am grateful to members who signed the motion but could not be here to speak. I thank everyone in the gallery—I am trying not to make any eye contact, right now.

This is a debate, and what we say matters, but it is also important to have the space in the chamber to listen and to show compassion and kindness, which we hope will resonate in our communities.

I thank Miles Briggs for mentioning my dad, Gerard—Gerry—at the start, and for talking about his lovely dad, Jim. We are two different MSPs from different parties, different parts of the chamber and different parts of the country, and our two dads were, I am sure, very different, but at the end of the day, we can see that there is a common thread that joins us. It is a pity that Miles Briggs and I are not sitting together for this debate, because a hug would be nice right now.

When we were approached to be part of the campaign, it was a huge honour. I did not want to turn up looking like I am right now, with a runny nose and wet eyes, but I suppose that that is what it is about: it is about showing our vulnerability and being honest that this is really hard. It is hard to find the words. Some days it is a bit easier than others but, as they say, “One day at a time.”

I am really grateful to the University of Stirling, the Salvation Army, Scottish Families Affected by Alcohol and Drugs and SHAAP for reaching out to us. I also thank the people who are here, in the gallery.

A lot of good stuff is happening out there; Stephanie Callaghan was right to talk about some of the projects, charities and groups that are doing the work. Over the summer, after our parliamentary event was held, I got out in Lanarkshire and elsewhere to chat and see what was going on. There is a lot of love, kindness and compassion out there, but we need to scale up the work and make sure that there is funding to do it.

The barriers are real and stigma is a killer. People might ask why we are discussing stigma when we should be talking about legislation, policy and funding. All those things are important—we need everything—but stigma is a killer because people are frightened to ask for help. They are worried about the police being at the door and about social work services using their substance use against them. What will the school say? What will people say at work? What might our colleagues in Parliament think of us if we say that substance use is an issue for us?

The Eva Burrows 1st Stop project in Cambuslang is one that I have spent time with. It is doing amazing work to end stigma and to bring tackling homelessness into the equation. We have had really good briefings on that from Turning Point Scotland and Crisis. We know that we are not doing enough and that we need to do more. It is a public health crisis.

Presiding Officer, I hope that you will indulge me, because we do not have a lot of speakers in the debate from the Labour benches. I want to talk about the letter that I wrote to my dad. It took me ages to write it. I looked at everyone else’s letters and was so amazed and impressed by them that I could not write mine. I found it very hard—so Miles Briggs completed his homework before I did. I talk to my dad when I visit the cemetery and so on. I know that that might sound weird, but we need to talk about bereavement, dying and grief a bit more.

I suppose that what I wrote was a love letter to my dad. I will not read it all now; it is on the website, and people can see the video. I was really struck by Ann’s letter to her friend Carol. Ann talked about her guilt. In my letter to my dad, I said:

“There were times it was too difficult to be around. Too many days when it was too painful to run to you. On those dark days when we were apart, I hope you know you were always loved.”

I wrote that because there was a lot of anger, isolation and distance. That guilt is real.

Some of the stigma that I experienced as a family member was through the national health service. People know that I am a huge champion of our NHS, but we need the kindness that I spoke of not just from our politicians but from our general practitioners, our nurses, our doctors and so on.

I will end with this, and I do not it say for sympathy. We have missed out on so many moments and milestones spent together because of avoidable deaths. All the family members of the 20,000 people who have lost their lives over the past decade will get that. In my case, my dad and I talking about politics, and debating ideas, influenced me in my life, but my dad died the year before I was elected to the Scottish Parliament. I struggle with that. In the letter, I say:

“If you’d lived one more year to see me elected to the Scottish Parliament, it would have been a special moment for us to share.”

I will stop there, Presiding Officer. Thank you for your indulgence. I want anyone who is struggling today to know that they are not alone and that they can reach out. Get on that website and get people to sign the pledge. We have a lot of work to do, but we can do it together, because we have to see beyond, and we have to see the lives.

Now that I have composed myself, I will make one of the points that I had hoped to get to. Sometimes, we get good articles and features, the words of which are on point, but when it comes to the headlines and the photos, stigma creeps back in. Does Carol Mochan agree that there is more work to do on media reporting and that it is not just about the copy but the photos and the headlines?

I am grateful to the minister for her comments. It is good that she is here in her capacity as the minister for public health. One of the organisations that I spent time with this summer is the Scottish Association for Mental Health. It has an individual placement and support service in North Lanarkshire, and it stressed to me that employment can be a health outcome on someone’s journey.

However, I heard some worrying stories about people in the workplace. If someone was living with cancer, people would—one would hope—be very supportive, but substance abuse has been treated somewhat differently. Some people said that they had been asked to sign up to drug and alcohol testing as a condition of coming back to work, but, when I asked them about it, it did not sound as if they had given fully informed consent to that.

Are there conversations that the minister could have with other colleagues in Government? We need to look at the matter holistically. I feel that there is workplace stigma. There are some really good employers and there are some who just do not get it. Could we do some more work on that?

Good morning to the minister and the witnesses.

The committee’s stage 1 scrutiny of the Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill is under way, and we are keen to understand what lessons have been learned about progressing circular economy policy under the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 and the common framework.