Chamber and committees

Good morning, Richard, or rather good afternoon—you have been here all morning. Thank you for putting yourself forward for scrutiny. I was looking at your CV and background information, and my favourite fact is that your PhD is in astrophysics, which, in your own words, makes you “nearly a rocket scientist”—it is good to know that.

I want to ask about European Union alignment. You have said to the committee previously that one of the challenges is keeping pace with environmental law changes at the EU level. Could you say a brief word about the current approach taken by ESS and how you see it developing or improving in the future?

It is fair to say that concerns about access to environmental justice in Scotland are well documented—it is very much a topical issue. You mentioned environmental courts and governance. We do not have an environmental court at present, and we do not know what the Scottish Government will do in relation to compliance with the Aarhus convention. Does that matter to ESS? If Scotland goes down the road of compliance and ends up with an environmental court, will that affect the operation and capacity of ESS and its relationships with other bodies? If that does not happen, what is your take on what would happen next in Scotland? What would be the effect on ESS?

The bill sets out what should be included in a land management plan, including setting out a long-term vision for the land; future objectives; and how the land will be used and managed to achieve net zero emissions, adapt to climate change and in relation to biodiversity. The plan is quite high level. Can you explain how the Government arrived at those factors and criteria? Was anything considered but not included in the final bill?

That is helpful, thank you.

We will approach the debate in good faith, because we have not yet read the framework. However, on the point about the territorial boards that have yet to make progress, can the minister give a timeline for when that work will be completed?

I agree that the antidote to stigma is compassion, love and care. A trauma-informed approach does not happen by chance. I have had a look at the framework and I am pleased that trauma-informed support is mentioned throughout it.

How can the minister reassure the Parliament that there will be investment in training and education, not just for the workforce in our maternity wards but for those working in primary care, and to ensure that, as others have mentioned, we reach workplaces, homes and communities?

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate and am therefore grateful to the minister for bringing the motion to the Parliament. I associate myself with her remarks about sympathy for all those who have been affected and our collective efforts to smash the stigma. It is good to see the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care in the chamber, and I hope that that gives an indication of how important the issue is to the Government.

We all recognise that, for generations, miscarriage, stillbirth, baby loss and women’s health have not been high on the agenda for policy makers or Governments anywhere. The issues that we are debating today are certainly not unique to Scotland, but we all have a responsibility to right that injustice. That is why today’s debate is so important.

I am fortunate that I do not have the lived experience that many people have shared today, and I am grateful to hear from colleagues about their own experiences. As an MSP, I rely on my constituents to tell me about their experiences. It is a great privilege when they feel that they can open up and trust me with their trauma and loss.

Beatrice Wishart made an excellent contribution, and I am glad that she was able to take part. I know that she is claiming Louise Caldwell as a Shetlander, which she was briefly. I thank Beatrice Wishart for her genuine support and compassion for Louise Caldwell, who is one of my constituents in Central Scotland. Louise and her husband Craig are from East Kilbride and are in the public gallery and, true to form, I can see that they are sitting at the very back of it. Louise is incredibly modest about her campaigning work. I often use the word “changemaker” to describe Louise—I know that she will be blushing at that, but it is thoroughly deserved. I will come on to speak about the award that she received form the Sunday Mail.

Louise does not want to be in that position. She is a campaigner because she has the lived experience. She knows what it is to have experienced miscarriage and to have to find yourself in the general labour ward of your local maternity hospital in a nightmare situation. The balloons, cards, elated parents and newborn babies are in juxtaposition with the mothers, partners, dads and other family members who are in utter shock, disbelief and so much pain. When Louise came to me for help, of course, I was going to listen and do whatever I could.

It has been a privilege to help Louise to have a platform in the Scottish Parliament. Louise attended a meeting of the cross-party group on women’s health to share her experience, and I am glad that she was able to do that. This is the first time that Louise and Craig have ever been to the Scottish Parliament. I hope that their attendance reinforces the importance of opening up the Parliament to the people of Scotland. Rather than the Parliament just being a place where members come to talk among ourselves, it should be a place where people can feel seen and heard, can influence our policies and where investment goes, and can make change happen.

Louise Caldwell was crowned the Sunday Mail’s community champion in 2022, which is no mean feat and is a national recognition. Whether members represent Shetland, Central Scotland, the Borders or anywhere in between, the issues that we are debating affect every corner of Scotland. At the time, the Sunday Mail’s editor said:

“Extraordinary people rarely think they have done anything out of the ordinary. The courage, dedication and sheer determination of these unsung heroes make them Scotland’s champions.”

That was said in direct reference to Louise Caldwell.

I know that I am running out of time, but I will mention a couple of other things. I am really grateful that the Government included recognition of stillbirth. I know that Tess White is not in the chamber, but she and I, along with other campaigners, visited Bute house in the summer to talk about the impact of stillbirth and to campaign for the placental growth factor test, which helps to identify the risk of pre-eclampsia. I was with my good friend Lynsey Hamilton and her husband Bradley, who were there because of the loss of their baby, Carys. The outcome of that meeting shows that we can be a listening Parliament and that we can have a listening Government. We rely on the courage of the changemakers, such as Louise Caldwell and Lynsey Hamilton, to put pressure on us to ensure that we step up.

I asked the minister for an update on dedicated baby loss facilities. There is more work to do. Scottish Labour is entirely committed to playing our part to ensure that the words that we share in the Parliament turn into action.

Presiding Officer,

“Growing up in one of Scotland’s most deprived communities is likely to put a person at the bottom of the class and, in too many instances, into an early grave.”—[Official Report, 2 June 2016; c 47.]

That is what I said to the Parliament in my very first speech back in 2016. Tragically, child poverty and inequality remain a scandal of epic proportions in our country. In Scotland today, one in three families with a baby under the age of one are living in poverty. The cabinet secretary rightly talked about our shared aspiration to eradicate child poverty, but that is more than an aspiration; it is our legal and moral obligation to babies, children and young people in every corner of Scotland.

Ahead of the debate, the Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland highlighted the crucial role that schools play in addressing child poverty. Although they cannot single-handedly solve child poverty and should never be expected to do so, our schools mitigate some of its worst impacts by helping to reduce household costs, maximising income and supporting children from lower-income households to learn, thrive and reach their potential. I therefore say a huge thank you to the teachers and education workforce of Scotland for the amazing work that they do.

We know that increasing family incomes is key to reducing child poverty. I am pleased that it is a priority for the UK Labour Government, but there is more that we need to do in this Parliament and elsewhere. Save the Children, which has been mentioned by other speakers, has highlighted that the poverty-related attainment gap in education is already well established long before a child starts school. It is therefore important that the Scottish Government does all that it can to expand publicly funded early learning and childcare from the end of paid maternity leave, and that we do not get complacent about the Scottish child payment and its uptake. We need to simplify it so that as many families as possible who are entitled to it get it, particularly because of its link to accessing free school meals.

In the casework that is keeping me busy at the moment, I am seeing far too many children and young people who are not getting the support that they need. As Martin Whitfield said, it is not always because of poverty, but there is an intersection with poverty. Families are struggling with poverty and low incomes, and children are waiting for the correct pathways around autism, ADHD and access to speech and language therapy. What I see in my inbox and advice surgeries is childhoods evaporating as people wait for support that comes far too late. We have to do better.

In South Lanarkshire, which is part of my Central Scotland region, more than one in five children are living in relative poverty. I have been asked to ask the cabinet secretary what additional provision will be put in place for young people in S5 and S6, as EMA has not changed for more than 20 years, remaining at £30 a week, with low eligibility criteria. As I said in the chamber yesterday in an intervention on Ross Greer, I welcome the commitment to expand access to free school meals. However, we are already a long way behind and we have to speed that up. As the cabinet secretary knows, we have discussed the importance of young people’s voices being at the heart of that.

We have learned a harsh lesson in this Parliament about setting targets and not living up to people’s expectations. We missed our climate targets because of delay and inaction, and we must not do that when it comes to the targets for reducing child poverty. We have the evidence and, I think, the political consensus. We just have to get on and do it.

Is the cabinet secretary able to say whether such work will include looking at the school uniform grant rising in line with inflation?

Yes. Rob, do you have some examples of current land management plans and the consultation that you mentioned? I looked on your website before today and had another look today and, although there was lots of information for investors, I could not find anything on it that was for the community. Where do we find case studies on community engagement and examples of consultation? Can you give us a brief example?