Chamber and committees

We could go on the buses together in Manchester.

Okay. Fair enough. I am sure that the committee will try its best to help you to persuade colleagues that investment in bus services is absolutely crucial to Scotland’s economy but also to achieving net zero.

We know that Strathclyde Partnership for Transport’s current consultation on its approach to bus transport includes potentially setting up a municipal bus company. Would ministers support that approach?

I was feeling inspired listening to my colleague Bob Doris. Given that there are real challenges around public finances and we know that investment is crucial but that being able to unlock it is not easy, are you and your colleagues having discussions with colleagues elsewhere? It is not just about what we talk about in the Parliament. Can we learn from what is happening in, for example, Greater Manchester and the work that is being led by Andy Burnham that is a result of lots of campaigning and cross-party working? Are you building that into your fact finding?

Good morning. That was a helpful opening statement, minister. Thank you for the clarification.

I note the information about the existing powers and what the instrument will do, but will more funding be made available to transport authorities? Having powers is really important, but we know that there are big challenges for bus services right across Scotland. I am thinking particularly about the Strathclyde area, where many of my constituents live. There are powers to run bus services and existing powers to subsidise services, but, when I speak to transport authorities, they say that they do not have the budget to do that. What can be expected in the months and years ahead?

That is encouraging.

It is good that we live in a democracy and in a free country, where John Mason can come to Parliament and have his say. However, I disagree with Mr Mason and others who have, like him, joined protests. It is one thing to hold those views—he absolutely has the right to oppose abortion healthcare—but, as the committee heard in evidence and as we are hearing in speeches today, it is having a real impact on women in Scotland right now. I hope that we will hear more from their voices.

I join others in thanking Gillian Mackay and her team for the hard work that has led to where we are today. Even with the support of the Scottish Government, it is really difficult to progress a member’s bill to stage 1. It is a huge undertaking, so I thank her for getting us to this point.

Of course, none of it would have been possible without the award-winning and groundbreaking Back Off Scotland campaign, which was launched in 2020, before the current parliamentary session. The action is long overdue. I think that we would all agree that the best ideas often come from grass-roots campaigners and people with direct experience of injustice and inequality. The Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill exists because of the courageous and tenacious young women behind Back Off Scotland. It is an honour to know them—in particular, Lucy Grieve and Alice Murray, whom I am now proud to call my friends. Alice Murray and Lily Roberts are just two of the young women who have bravely shared their stories with the public and with Parliament—stories of running the gauntlet and facing loud chants or silent judgment. It does not matter how quiet or noisy the protest is—it has the same impact on women.

In the time for which Back Off Scotland has been campaigning, those young women have got a bit older, and Lucy recently got married. In that time, the protests have become more common. There has been a real escalation and, as Rona Mackay said, the activity has become more sinister. We have seen that at the Sandyford clinic, where people tried to board up access to the clinic. We have seen people gathering in huge numbers—sometimes more than 100 people—at the Queen Elizabeth university hospital in Glasgow. I have seen it in my parliamentary region, Central Scotland, where people have gathered at University hospital Wishaw—something that had not happened before, to my knowledge.

Like others, I am grateful to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee for all its hard work, and to those who gave evidence. Those of us who are involved in the cross-party group on women’s health also heard directly from people with lived experience. As Meghan Gallacher said—we share the same region—we have had many emails from people with all shades of opinions, which are really important for us to hear. The testimony of women, their families and healthcare workers is really important. We have also heard from Dr Sandesh Gulhane, who can bring to bear his professional experience.

However, as my colleague Carol Mochan mentioned, there is also a trade union issue. I welcome the support from the Scottish Trades Union Congress and the settled position of the trade union movement in Scotland, which backs Gillian Mackay and her bill. The harassment is targeting not just those who might be accessing healthcare services, but those who deliver the services. Many of those healthcare workers might have had an abortion or experienced trauma in relation to pregnancy or pregnancy loss. That is the point: we just do not know what people have been through when they go through the clinic doors.

As Engender points out in its briefing,

“Anti-choice harassment outside abortion services in Scotland and the UK has escalated in recent years”,

and the activity is undertaken with the aim of obstructing, harassing, intimidating and stigmatising those who are accessing healthcare and those who are involved in the provision of healthcare. At the heart of the matter are the really important issues of bodily autonomy and access to sexual and reproductive rights. I am very clear that gendered harassment and intimidation are forms of violence against women and girls, and that they have to end. [Interruption.] Excuse me—I am struggling with a sore throat today.

I have made points about workers, about trade unions and about everyone being able to come to Parliament and have their say. In my final seconds, I want to mention Dr Greg Irwin, who has been a real ally to the campaigners. He is a paediatric radiologist who works at the Royal hospital for children in Glasgow and has often talked about the visible nature of the protests and the noise in the hospital environment—even though it is a big hospital, people can hear it. He has also talked about bullying of women in NHS hospitals today. That cannot go on.

I agree with colleagues that no bill will ever be the complete or finished article at stage 1. I welcome the on-going scrutiny of the bill and I will be happy to play my part. I urge all colleagues to back the bill at stage 1.

Apologies. The technology does not appear to be working.

I am enjoying Tess White’s speech. She is also an active member of the women’s health cross-party group. Does Tess White agree that, although it has taken quite a long time to get to this point, we have the benefit of being able to look at the legal situation in Northern Ireland? We had the Supreme Court ruling and, obviously, there is legislation in other parts of the UK. Is it helpful to colleagues in the Scottish Parliament when we are trying to get the bill to the next stage that we are not the first to do this?

I refer to my voluntary entry in the register of members’ interests, as I receive support from Stop Ecocide International.

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to the report, “Scoping a Domestic Legal Framework for Ecocide in Scotland”, which was published by the Environmental Rights Centre for Scotland. (S6F-03060)

I thank the First Minister for his response; it is good to get that on the record. I am grateful to members across the Parliament for their constructive cross-party engagement with my proposed member’s bill on ecocide law.

Preventing severe environmental harm is vital to protect nature and the climate, to support a just transition for workers and communities and to help our economy deliver for the people of Scotland. In these uncertain times, when climate action is needed more than ever, will the First Minister confirm that his Government is committed to working with me and all parties and stakeholders on the contribution that ecocide prevention can make, including by continuing the positive dialogue that I have had with ministers on my proposed bill?

I do not want to lower the mood, as you were trying to take us to quite a positive place—you will be missed in your role. You opened the evidence session by describing the dangerous moment in which we find ourselves. Last week, we heard reactions from charities and veteran climate campaigners about scrapping the 2030 climate targets. We heard from Oxfam that it is a “global embarrassment.” We heard from Friends of the Earth Scotland that it was

“the worst environmental decision in the history of the Scottish Parliament”.

People who know the climate science, the importance of getting things right, the opportunities and the prize that awaits us are not taking it well, and they are certainly not exaggerating.

You have spoken about a climate act that is in danger of being an empty vessel. There are blank pages where we should have good, bold policies. The Scottish Government has had 15 years to deliver transformative action. How do we get things back on track if it looks like there has been a real lack of political courage? There will be a lot of debate and discussion during the rest of the parliamentary session, there is a motion of no confidence and the Bute house agreement is in jeopardy. How do politicians find the courage here? What advice can you give to Government and Parliament?