Chamber and committees

I pay tribute to the SEPA officers involved in detecting that serious and, frankly, disgusting environmental crime. What were supposed to be bales of waste paper included used nappies, period products, dog excrement and plastic packaging. Dozens of those containers were intercepted in Antwerp and in transit to China.

I appreciate that the fine is a matter for the courts, but does the First Minister agree that £20,000 is a paltry fine for that filthy crime and that we need more robust punishment in order to deter such crimes? What action will the Scottish Government take to ensure that our regulatory and legal frameworks are fit for purpose and that we can show leadership on environmental justice and fulfil our moral and legal obligations not to export our pollution to other countries?

To ask the First Minister what the Scottish Government’s response is to a Scottish Environment Protection Agency investigation uncovering the single largest illegal export of household waste from Scotland, resulting in Saica Natur UK Limited being fined £20,000. (S6F-00501)

Thank you. My question was directed at Dave Reay, convener, but Mike Robinson might have something to add.

Thanks, Teresa. Jess, in giving your answer, will you also reflect on your earlier remarks about the public being energised and about public expectations? I am thinking about the legacy of COP26 for people here in Scotland. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on that.

I want to pick up on what Professor Reay said about fear. There are some tough and brave decisions for politicians to make. Earlier, you said that COP26 was the most science-based COP that there has been. I wonder where the science will take us by the time we get to COP27.

Do you think that leaders, including Scotland’s First Minister, have been on a journey during COP26? Last week, the First Minister said in Parliament that projects such as Cambo should not go ahead. That decision appears to reflect the science, but politically it is probably quite difficult to say. Does that movement in the position send out a message to the leaders of other parties that we have to get with the science? Does it mean that there will be space for people to change their minds on long-standing positions?

Thank you both for those helpful remarks.

I am mindful of time, so I will try to lump a few things into one question, and witnesses can respond to the parts that are most relevant to them.

I want to return to the issue of a just transition, and, in that regard, I refer everyone to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a member of Unite the union and the GMB.

At the Glasgow conference, we saw climate strikers and environmentalists coming together publicly with workers and trade unions. That is a positive development. It appears that the public believe the science and are following it, but many workers are still quite sceptical about the ability of politicians and Governments to deliver a just transition, because they have never seen a just transition being delivered before. What needs to happen to make that just transition happen?

Mary Church talked about strengthening the climate change plan and developing a credible road map, and Jess Pepper touched on the issue of a route map, too. From the conversations that you have had with people at COP, what do you think people want to happen at national level?

We heard a lot about greenwashing ahead of COP and during it, in the blue zone. What can we do, in terms of public and political education, to enable us all to know that it is greenwashing when we see it, a bit like fake news? Often, we talk about education for children and young people in schools, but such education needs to be a lifelong thread running through all our lives. How can we make sure that the public have the right tools to be properly engaged in the conversation and to be able to call out greenwashing when they see it?

I was pleased to hear Mike Robinson mention the ecocide events that happened alongside COP. I had the chance to attend some of them.

I am thinking about what he and Professor Reay said about the opportunity for Scotland to lead the way and build progressive alliances. What role can Scotland play in the journey towards an ecocide law? I declare an interest as someone who is considering a member’s bill. Could Scotland play a role in that space on the climate and nature emergency?

Thank you very much. We know that the COP presidency will continue with the UK until COP27 in Egypt next year. Even though Scotland did not have a formal seat at the table, we have been able to lead through the action that has been taken on loss and damage. That has been very well received and has been a catalyst for other contributions.

We also have an opportunity to lead on the just transition. I know that a just transition declaration was agreed at COP26, but so far that has only been signed by the United States, the United Kingdom, the 27 EU countries, Norway, Canada and New Zealand. As a devolved nation, what more can we do in the run-up to COP27 to try to mainstream and embed the concept of just transition? What can we do to demonstrate that we are making progress towards that here in Scotland and in the UK?

Thank you, Malini. I am really pleased that you mentioned the climate assembly. I believe that the Scottish Government will be responding to its recommendations next month.

I am very proud of the role of children and young people in the lead up to COP26—as I am sure most of us are. I want to pay tribute to the Children’s Parliament and the Scottish Youth Parliament. It was lovely to see young people involved at the GLOBE summit at the Scottish Parliament.

We have talked about the role of the Parliament and there has been good public engagement during COP26. Not everyone is an avid COP watcher—if Professor Skea is not, what chance do the rest of us have? What happens next for those citizens who have been paying attention—perhaps not to all the details—and want to see progress? How do we ensure that the public does not lose heart, get disappointed and feel that there is no point if certain countries are not playing their part? What must happen next to ensure the participation of all our constituents and that they have a role in holding all our feet to the fire outwith election times?