Chamber and committees

Everyone wants a just transition—I do not think that anyone is against that—and to protect and create good jobs. I am trying to understand where a project such as Rosebank, which is massive in scale, would fit in with a just transition.

I will ask again about the Scottish Government’s position. I fully understand that the decision sits with ministers in London, but is the Scottish Government neutral on Rosebank? Do you have a view one way or the other, or is the Scottish Government happy to sit and let others consider compatibility checkpoints and make the decision? I wonder whether, in private discussions, you say that you are not in favour of Rosebank, and I think that people would like to know whether that is the case.

The committee loves to shine a light on good practice and innovation.

You talked earlier about the need for transparency in decision making. People need to have the tools to combat misinformation and to identify greenwashing when they see it. Thinking again about the Government’s communication strategy, what more could be done to make sure that, when people are given information, it is factual, credible and evidence-based, so that they can trust what they hear?

It is lovely to be back and to have the opportunity to be with the committee again, and it is good that we have Ann and Gerry Stark in the public gallery today. The loss of their son, Richard, is what brought us all here and what has brought all the evidence and discussion into the Parliament and the public arena.

Ann is a prolific e-mail writer and sender. I do not want to make committee members feel that they are not special, but she has been writing to every MSP and has been getting a very warm response. More and more people are coming forward to say that the issues that we are looking at are very important.

I will not repeat everything that I said in my summary at the session in June. It was quite an intense session with the Lord Advocate and Mr Shanks and, at points, it was frustrating to try and find out who will take responsibility for the issue. Fergus Ewing and Alexander Stewart, in particular, teased out a lot of that. In the end, the Lord Advocate acknowledged that, if we all want a humane and progressive system, we need to be robust and thorough in investigating deaths where there is suspicion, but that it needs to be proportionate.

In prompting the inquiry, the petitioner has highlighted that in Scotland we are not keeping pace with modern practice elsewhere, and not only in England—we have heard about the experience in Lancashire—but in Japan and Australia, and there are other examples. We want to keep pace with that. The evidence that we heard from colleagues in Lancashire gave me some comfort that those innovations have been cost neutral to public authorities. It is important for us, as parliamentarians, to understand the cost implications.

We all want families to be treated with respect, dignity and compassion, but unfortunately that has not always been the case. We have heard about some of the workforce challenges. No one wants to minimise those, but the proposals that have come to the committee would help with workforce pressures and future workforce planning.

I am a Central Scotland MSP, and the family behind me are from Lanarkshire. Rightly, they are wondering why families in Lancashire can benefit from the service but no one has been looking at it in Scotland, until now.

It is welcome that the committee has had an update from the Crown Office on the service redesign during the summer but, to go back to the title of the petition and the ask of the Scottish Government, the Scottish Government has, in my view, been sitting on the sidelines while everyone else has been trying to figure out what to do. It is important that the Government is aware that the Parliament is taking the issue seriously and that ministers are fully engaged. Looking back at the notes from the previous session, I think that the Lord Advocate pretty much said that, if she gets a steer on what to do next, she will do it to the best of her ability, but that it is not really up to her. We need leadership on the issue.

The petition that Mrs Stark lodged is a huge credit to her, but it has been at huge personal cost to her. She spends every waking hour on this, and I can tell you that she does not get a lot of sleep. It is important that we do the right thing by her and other families.

I am interested to hear what Government and other partners will do next because, until now, no one has really picked up the ball on this; it has been left to families, which is unfair. I appreciate all the time and effort that the committee has put in. We started with a blank sheet of paper, and no one really knew what was going on but, now, thanks to the committee, we have a ton of evidence, not just from the United Kingdom but on what is happening internationally, which is really important. I say a big thank you to all the committee members.

To ask the Scottish Government how much it has allocated from its 2023-24 budget to community justice services for the purpose of supporting women with a history of offending and substance abuse. (S6O-02468)

I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests, as I am a member of Unite the union.

Turning Point Scotland’s 218 service in Glasgow is a lifeline service for women, but, today, Unite the union has called for an urgent review of an £850,000 budget cut by the Government and Glasgow City Council that could force the centre to close and make 30 workers redundant. Will the cabinet secretary agree to review the community justice services budget and this funding crisis with a view to saving the service, saving lives and saving jobs, and to keep the Parliament updated?

To ask the First Minister whether he will provide an update on the Scottish Government’s commitment to roll out universal free school meals, in light of reported concerns that there will be further delays to the expansion of universal free school meal provision for primary 6 and P7 pupils, and that no progress has been made on its commitment to establish a secondary school pilot scheme. (S6F-02299)

Will the Scottish Government keep its promise to Scotland’s children? Can the First Minister guarantee that the roll-out will be delivered by the end of this session?

The Scottish Government was leading the rest of the UK on universal free school meals roll-out, but the work has stalled and we are falling behind.

Under Nicola Sturgeon, the P6 and P7 expansion was delayed. Last year’s announcement to pilot the provision in secondary schools has amounted to nothing. Close working would suggest communication; however, although I have made freedom of information requests of every local authority, there has not been even one phone call from the Scottish Government to any school or council about them.

Instead of prioritising hungry children, the Government approached the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities at the start of this month to broker further delays. Astonishingly, councils are now being warned that full roll-out in primary schools might not happen in this session of Parliament. Children are going hungry today and cannot wait until 2026—

Thank you, convener. I am grateful to have the opportunity to be here and I am grateful to the petitioner, Alison Dowling, for bringing the matter to Parliament.

I think that the response from the cabinet secretary that you referenced was to one of my questions in the chamber, of which I have asked many. I do not doubt the Scottish Government’s commitment to the policy, and I commend the Scottish Government for the implementation of universal free school meals so far. In many respects, we have led the United Kingdom. We have inspired other campaigners and we have probably prompted other Governments to follow in our footsteps. However, we are no longer leading the way, which is why I wanted to speak to the petition.

When I visit schools across Lanarkshire and Falkirk, in my region of Central Scotland, I have the pleasure and privilege of speaking to young people, teachers and school staff, and sometimes parents, when they are in the school. Some of the things that I have heard have shocked me to the core. This will probably not be news to colleagues, but it is important to get it on the record. When I am in schools and am speaking to teachers and their trade unions, they give me examples of hungry children eating pencils and rubbers in classrooms, and then going home and not having any food in their bellies until the next day.

We talk a lot in the Parliament about closing the poverty-related attainment gap. How can you learn and thrive when you are hungry and not getting the nutrition and nourishment that you need? I feel that there is a moral imperative not just to continue with the policy but to do so as a matter of urgency.

I am sitting here with lots of papers and dates of questions and updates. There has been a change in ministers, and the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills, Jenny Gilruth, who has a background in teaching, understands the issues, but I am afraid that I have to tell you that there has been no progress. In fact, we are about to go backwards.

Since September last year, when the Scottish Government said in the programme for government that it would pilot the policy in secondary schools as well as progressing it at pace in primary schools, I have asked it many times—and journalists have also asked—where the pilot schemes will be and which schools and local authorities the Government is speaking to.

Eventually, I had to use a freedom of information request and, in the past few weeks, I have had all the responses back from every council—32 local authorities. I asked them whether any of their schools had had any contact from the Government, but not one had. We keep hearing that work is being done and there are discussions between the Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and partners, but that is not happening.

On Monday morning, I learned that the Government had approached COSLA and said that, due to budget pressures and other factors, it would not be able to deliver the scheme. In a report that I have seen—I probably should not have seen it—COSLA says and is telling its members that that could mean that full roll-out of universal school meals will be beyond this parliamentary session. I am here to tell you that children are eating pencils and rubbers, but the Government is willing to kick the issue down the road until the end of this parliamentary session or beyond. That is not acceptable by any measure. The good work that has been done up to primary 5 is due to the political will to make it happen.

I do not have much more of your time, but I want to say that I held a major event in Parliament in May with the Scottish Trades Union Congress women’s committee, which has been leading the food for thought campaign. More than 100 people were there, mostly children and young people, and I believe that we need to hear their voices. They were very clear on what needs to happen, which is why I asked Jenny Gilruth about co-production—not because it is a buzzword to use but because if we bring children and young people into the decision-making process, they will tell us the solutions.

The Government has raised issues such as some schools being too small and some canteens not being big enough to have everyone in one lunch setting. That is fine; let us find some workarounds—for example, schools could have lunch time over two sittings, or they could work with partners, including businesses. Young people are learning about food waste and local food production. We are supposed to be a good food nation—surely we can find a way.

If the Parliament had approved my amendments to the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill, we would have locked the policy in. I pay tribute to colleagues in Parliament, including those in Scottish Labour, the Scottish Conservatives and the Scottish Liberal Democrats, for backing those amendments. I know that Scottish National Party and Green colleagues believe in the policy, too, and we have to deliver it.

I will finish with the words of a young person, because I think that that is appropriate. Colleagues will be aware that today a landmark report by the Trussell Trust on hunger in Scotland was published. One in six of our citizens is going hungry. There is not a typical person, but we know that some groups are affected more than others. Gemma is a young person from the charity Passion4Fusion, and she was at the food for thought event in May. She said:

“Studies have shown that eating together with friends, peers and family promotes good eating habits, happiness and the ability to converse.”

Gemma is right. We have to take the stigma away from free school meal provision.

Providing universal free school meals for all students is about more than just removing the costs and worry of school meal debt, which is accruing and building up every day. It is about removing the divide between students from different backgrounds and building a sense of community. That is why I support the petition.

I thank the committee for your on-going work. I hope that, collectively as a Parliament, we can find some solutions, because children cannot wait until the end of the parliamentary session; they can barely wait until the end of the day. I commend the petition to the committee.

Thank you. We have many more topics to get through, so I hand back to the convener.