Chamber and committees

I am grateful to hear about the document, but I am keen to get a real-world example of how you apply those different charters and best practice ideals. Could you give the committee a place-based example?

No, that is okay. My question was just about the land management plan, because the committee’s job is to make recommendations on the bill and say whether we think that it is rubbish or needs some tweaking—other views are available. My question was really just to find out whether you agree that we need to enhance biodiversity through land management planning.

The commitment in the budget to expand universal free school meals, particularly in relation to secondary schools, is welcome.

Did the Green Party ask about the primary 6 and 7 roll-out, and was any commitment given about any action in the near future?

I do not believe that any member of the Parliament has taken part in the debate to talk down the NHS—not at all. No one is denying that healthcare services beyond Scotland’s borders face challenges of their own. However, this is the Scottish Parliament. Our constituents sent us here to improve their lives and to make good decisions about their public services.

It is evident from members’ speeches that we all care deeply about the NHS and about social care. Scottish Labour will always champion our health and social care workforce—that is why we secured this debate. We MSPs are not unique, but through our advice surgeries and casework, we know more than most people do about the challenges, pressures, delays and barriers that people experience, and about what it is like for people who are trying to access care and for their families and the workforce. We heard from Alex Cole-Hamilton the poignant example of his father, who has had a health scare and is anxiously waiting for results. Sadly, it is the case that all of us have such cases in our casework.

Let us not sugar coat what is going on. There is a lot to celebrate in the NHS, and Gordon MacDonald gave us a good reminder of that. However, if we come to the chamber only to help out the Government front bench and to pretend that everything is okay, we do a disservice to our constituents, who are scared and who have, sadly, seen their loved ones die because they waited for an ambulance that did not come, or because they had to be parked in a corridor or cared for in a cupboard. That is the reality.

It is not a word that I use lightly, but the term that comes to mind is “permacrisis”. It is not winter pressure or a seasonal issue. It is the new normal for our NHS and for social care, but it does not need to be like that. To colleagues who want to spend their time describing waiting times and the performance of other health trusts and other Governments, I say that they should think about their own constituents and the reality that they experience. They are the people whom we have to get this right for.

Scottish Labour has come to the chamber today with solutions. We have, rightly, proposed a 10-year workforce plan, because the SNP has failed to act in the long-term interests of the NHS and social care for too long. I see that in NHS Lanarkshire, NHS Forth Valley and NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde—the health boards that I deal with day to day—and people have had enough.

In NHS Lanarkshire, almost 79,000 nursing and midwifery days were lost to mental ill health. That shows the number of staff who are burned out. They are at breaking point.

What about safe staffing levels? Apparently, we have legislation on that. When is it going to make a difference? The NHS in Scotland has spent at least £900 million on agency nursing staff and locum doctors since 2019. The NHS is haemorrhaging money because of the SNP’s failure to recruit and retain staff.

In my final seconds, I will say a brief word about mental health and the children who are being let down. Not once has the Government met its CAMHS targets of 90 per cent of referrals being seen within 18 weeks. My constituent Karen McKeown from Bellshill lost her partner to suicide. That has affected her life and the lives of her children. She fights for reform and has a petition lodged in Parliament. I ask the Scottish Government when it will get real and respond to Karen McKeown and the many others like her who have had their lives destroyed because it is failing to listen and to act in the long-term interests of this country.

That was helpful. Thank you, Laura. It is good to get that perspective at stage 1. That will help us with our reporting on the bill. I will go to Dannie Onn and then I will hand back to the convener.

Thank you.

Thank you—that was quite a comprehensive answer. I am interested in hearing more about what people think proportionate looks like and what would be good practice in that area.

Let me unpack some of that. I take your point about net zero, biodiversity and climate change, but, on a large estate, would such assessment and planning not be happening anyway? You talked earlier about the business planning side of your operations and the more commercial stuff that is perhaps not all in the public domain. Would that work on biodiversity, nature restoration and net zero not be influencing the commercial side anyway?

Dennis Overton was gesturing, so I will go to Dennis and then Laura Hamlet—I do not know whether she is keen to answer. I have put her on the spot, but I will stick to those in the room for now.

No—it is fascinating. We are here to learn in real time.

I will briefly follow up on that point, Dennis. I do not know who was in the room at that workshop, but one issue that we have, sitting in committee rooms like this, is that we want to make sure that legislation is fit for purpose but also that it does not exist in a silo. The Scottish Government has other aspirations and has other legislation coming forward, including the proposed community wealth building bill. I do not know whether the workshop that you mentioned was touching on local spend going back into the economy so that the people who live in an area benefit from the investment, just as they have an interest in any negative aspect of development. Was it in that space around community wealth building?

That is helpful. I will go to Laura Hamlet and then Dannie Onn, if there is time.