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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 May 2025
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Displaying 3102 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Fine. If you want to furnish us with more details on that in writing afterwards, that would be helpful.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 28 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you. We are right up against the clock, and I think that we have broken any cap that we might have set ourselves, so I will draw proceedings to a close at that point. I thank David Jones, James Huntley and Gavin Redmond for their evidence and for making themselves available today; we very much appreciate that and wish them well in the future.

We will now move into private session.

11:32 Meeting continued in private until 11:36.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

I think that Graham Simpson has some more questions in line with that.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

No—

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

But what is your view of the fact that we have been told that the only institutions that were considered for this course were Harvard, Stanford and Yale?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

You “have not come across” it. Okay, that is interesting.

As I understand it, mentoring programmes and such things are part of the fabric of personal development in the civil service. Is that right?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Maybe that was another facet of the business case that was drawn up by the chief operating officer.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2023”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you very much indeed. I am sorry that there has been an air of rushing in the session. As the deputy convener remarked, your report is comprehensive and has given us a lot of evidence to consider. We will also consider whether we might want to invite more witnesses to give us their views on your findings in the annual section 23 audit of the NHS.

Auditor General, thank you very much for your evidence. I also thank Cornilius Chikwama, Leigh Johnston and Martin McLauchlan.

11:39 Meeting continued in private until 11:53.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Mr Rathjen, I want to go back to you, because I feel as though you are almost misleading the committee. You said that you believed that it was an error of judgment and that you thought that what was going on was not acceptable, but when I read the email that you sent, I see that you said things like,

“I am grateful for the opportunity to comment ...On the Christmas gifts I accept this was an oversight and do not think it is proportionate to try and recover the balance ... On the training costs, I rather agree that this is a unique training offering and can see why single tender was your approach ... I would have agreed with the approach ... Due diligence had been carried out”.

That does not tell me that you are challenging the decision; it tells me that you are going along with it. You are complicit in what many people who are looking at the matter now would understand to be a waste of public money.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Water Industry Commission for Scotland”

Meeting date: 21 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Thanks, director general. Over to you, Mr MacRae.