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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 27 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning and welcome, everyone, to the 27th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee. We have received apologies from Joe FitzPatrick, so I am pleased that we are joined by Keith Brown.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking items 4, 5, 6 and 7 in private. Are we all agreed to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is consideration of a section 22 report from the Auditor General for Scotland entitled “The 2023-24 audit of UHI Perth”. I welcome our witnesses. We are joined by Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General for Scotland. Alongside Mr Boyle is Mark MacPherson, who is an audit director at Audit Scotland. I am also very pleased to welcome Nicola Wright, who is an engagement lead for Deloitte and who carried out the audit of the college on behalf of Audit Scotland.

We have a number of questions to put to you on the report, but, before we get to those, I invite the Auditor General to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thanks. The final introductory question from me before I bring in other members of the committee is on something that you say in the report, and which again is very striking—indeed, I cannot remember seeing anything equivalent in the past. You say that you are unable to explain why no budget was set.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Our impact: Monitoring and evaluation report 2025”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. You mentioned the importance of monitoring and evaluation in making a difference. Could you explain how the monitoring and evaluation framework makes a difference?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Our impact: Monitoring and evaluation report 2025”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bring in Keith Brown at this point.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Our impact: Monitoring and evaluation report 2025”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

You are on a roll.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

But, as I understand it, the exodus of staff—or the big turnover of staff—happened this year, in 2025, did it not? The report is on the financial year 2023-24, when there was the complete absence of any budget.

Auditor General, you are presenting this report to Parliament because you have serious concerns about what happened. I suppose that the question is why those serious concerns were not picked up at an earlier point by either UHI or the Scottish Funding Council.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. I am going to move things along and invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

I read a report that suggested that, under the principal and CEO who has now left but who held that position at the time of the audit, there were five different finance directors, which again is an interesting indication of the instability of that function inside the college.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. We have come to the end of our time on this report. I thank Mark MacPherson, Nicola Wright and the Auditor General for presenting their evidence. The committee will need to consider what our next steps are. We are about to keep two of you, but lose Ms Wright, as we change over witnesses. To allow us to change witnesses, I briefly suspend the meeting.

11:16 Meeting suspended.  

11:19 On resuming—