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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 January 2026
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Displaying 3682 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

You mentioned FMI’s track record and its intellectual property rights. When it was commissioned to do that work, was it required to disclose who else it worked for?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Scottish Government Strategic Commercial Assets Division

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Richard Leonard

No, I am not asking a legal question. I am asking whether FMI is subject to any risk if it is hired to carry out due diligence, for example, and things do not pan out according to its advice. Is there any clawback? What responsibility rests with it?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Obviously, as a committee, we can make recommendations in the medium and longer term about changes to the legislative framework that might get us into that terrain. I do not know the status of that work or whether you are able to share that with us. If you are, it would be useful for us to have sight of it, because we are interested in whether you have considered alternative governance arrangements and what they would look like.

We understand that it may be beyond your power to establish such alternative arrangements unilaterally, but we would be interested to know what led you to conclude that that might be a better way of providing oversight.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I turn to the question of auditing. David Hamilton, the commissioner who told us that he felt that he was “financially hamstrung”, was the author of the view that the audit process, both internal and external, is disproportionate and overburdensome. You might have seen that evidence from a few weeks ago. As members of the corporate body, have you taken a view of that perspective?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

A short answer to my next question would be helpful, because I do not want us to go down a rabbit hole.

It is often said that we learn more from failure than we do from success. One of the triggers for the agreement with the Conveners Group was the failure of the Ethical Standards Commissioner, which led to Audit Scotland producing a section 22 report. The Public Audit Committee was of the view that it should not have taken that to resolve some of the issues that had clearly been developing inside that organisation. Have you learned lessons from that about how better to provide oversight, scrutiny and accountability?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Earlier in the meeting, you said that the corporate body had oversight over governance and accountability, which is quite a clear responsibility that lies firmly in the corporate body’s corner.

I have one final question in this area, convener, if I may.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I have a couple of other questions. As I understand it, there are quarterly meetings between the officer-holder services team and the commissioners and related bodies, and Mr Carlaw said that the corporate body now has biannual meetings with each of those post holders. Previously, I think that it might have been an annual session. For the record, could you confirm that that is how the process works at the moment? Is that the frequency of that interaction?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

No, that is fine.

10:45  

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 15 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Maggie Chapman mentioned that she has two hats. I have the hat of the convener of the Public Audit Committee. The evidence that we took from the Auditor General was rather contrary to what you have said. He felt—and, as it happens, it is a view that I share—that there is some value in getting the assurance of a stand-alone audit. Last week, we explored that in relation to His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland, which is audited as part of the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts audit, unlike the Scottish Fiscal Commission, which has its own independent internal audit and is externally audited by Audit Scotland. Have you taken a view on whether there would be merit in combining the audit process for all those public bodies?