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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 January 2026
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Displaying 3682 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

We are not the Public Audit Committee for Connecticut, fortunately.

We will have one final and brief question from the deputy convener, before we wrap it up.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

I have a couple of final questions to put to you. I will begin by tidying up a couple of issues that arose in the previous round of questions.

In response to the questions on remuneration arrangements, you mentioned that the remuneration committee had approved the long-term incentive plan and the mission contribution reward scheme. I presume that that also requires ministerial sign-off. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Arguably, Mr Watt—I have found that the Treasury is not always right.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

It might be easier to change the law than it is to change the mind of the Treasury. [Laughter.]

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

This is bringing back lots of memories for me of meetings with the Scottish Grocers Federation, visiting glass manufacturers in Ayrshire and so on, but that was some time ago.

Stuart McMillan will now put some questions to you about the broader environment that you operate in.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everybody to the 21st meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee.

Agenda item 1 is for the committee to decide whether to take items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Do we agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scottish National Investment Bank”

Meeting date: 25 June 2025

Richard Leonard

The second item on our agenda is further consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s report on the Scottish National Investment Bank. I am pleased to welcome our two witnesses. We are joined by Al Denholm, the chief executive of the Scottish National Investment Bank, and alongside him is Willie Watt, who chairs the Scottish National Investment Bank.

We have some questions to put to both of you based on the Audit Scotland report. Before we get to our questions, Mr Watt, I invite you to give us a short opening statement.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the year to 31 March 2025 and Auditor’s Report on the Accounts

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Richard Leonard

We accept, as a commission, that it is not a fixed-fee model and there is not necessarily a capped regime in place, but 21 per cent is quite a big variance, is it not? Given the institutional knowledge that exists in Audit Scotland and your familiarity with the mixed-market approach, when we are asked to approve a budget, we expect that to be more or less the same as the actual spend. I hear what you say, Ms Bibby, about particular cases and so on, but as a rule of thumb, I might expect the variance to be 5 per cent or a single-digit variance from the budget, but this is 21 per cent. That is of fairly large magnitude.

My second question is whether, among the six firms, there are particular firms that have charged significantly more in the audit work that they have been doing.

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2024/25”

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Richard Leonard

I have a couple of questions on audit delays. Paragraph 20 of the report tells us that 91 audits are delayed. In fact, when I look at it in a bit more detail, it tells me that 91 audits are late and “not making progress”, so they are not just delayed but stuck, it seems to me. I wonder whether you can address that. Can you also address this point? This is probably an unfair way of framing it but, if I could be simple in my approach, at the start of the report you talk about between 233 and 253 audits being completed; if there are 91 delayed audits, that is a ratio of between 35 to almost 40 per cent of audits that are delayed or “late and not making progress”. That is a huge proportion, is it not?

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2024/25”

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Richard Leonard

Perhaps I can finish where I started, by going back to your figures, which say that 91 audits are late—or, to use Mr Smith’s terminology, “not making progress” according to his yardstick. However, you also give us a breakdown that, of those 91 cases, 46 are late due to the auditor, 27 are due late to the body that is being audited and 18 are late in circumstances that are “beyond the control of either”. Again, that is your explanation. I am not quite sure what “beyond the control of either” means. How can something be beyond the control of either the auditor or the public body that is being audited? That baffles me.