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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 November 2025
Richard Leonard
I am not quite sure that that is what I took from the KPMG report. You have said, and it is in your section 22 report, that NHS Grampian has the lowest bed base per 1,000 population and so on, yet one of the things that is highlighted in the KPMG report is that there has been a further reduction in the number of beds available in NHS Grampian. It also goes on to talk about how artificial intelligence could be brought in to replace some of what it describes as lower grade staff. I am not quite sure whether we would sign up to that, but there are some ideas out there about how things can be streamlined, are there not?.
I guess that there are broader questions here about bed numbers, which is an issue that came up in our discussion about NHS Ayrshire and Arran. Is reducing the number of beds one of the Government’s targets as a means of driving down the cost base in territorial health boards?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Fine—thank you. I will now invite Colin Beattie to put some questions to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 November 2025
Richard Leonard
That is a moot point and a question for our times, is it not?
I now invite the deputy convener to ask some questions.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 November 2025
Richard Leonard
The traffic-light system at the end of the report, which indicates which services are exceeding the targets and which are falling below them, is a very useful addition. On the face of it, if a health board was overspending its budget and achieving much better outcomes for its population, one could say that there might be some merit in that, but, in the report, you portray a health board that is overspending its budget and relying on bailout loans from the Scottish Government and which, even then, is still not meeting targets on accident and emergency waiting times and so on.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you. We now have a final couple of questions from the deputy convener, Jamie Greene.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you. To get us under way, I invite Graham Simpson to lead off.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 November 2025
Richard Leonard
I will now turn to Joe FitzPatrick, who has some questions to put to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 31st meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee.
Under agenda item 1, do members of the committee agree to take agenda items 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 this morning in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 November 2025
Richard Leonard
Thank you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 November 2025
Richard Leonard
You have said a couple of times already this morning that your concern is that there is no evidence that the board can achieve financial sustainability. How has it come to that?