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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 March 2026
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Displaying 3801 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thanks. The final introductory question from me before I bring in other members of the committee is on something that you say in the report, and which again is very striking—indeed, I cannot remember seeing anything equivalent in the past. You say that you are unable to explain why no budget was set.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. As we have mentioned a few times this morning, an important report was produced last week on the funding position of further education. We will be having an evidence session on that broader palette and of course Mr Brown is very welcome to join us, either as the substitute member of the committee or as somebody who has a very particular interest in relation to his own constituency.

I will finish on the particularity of UHI Perth. The departing finance director, Gavin Stevenson, gave an interview to The Courier newspaper, in which he said that the college’s financial position was “perilous” and that it was in a “desperately precarious situation”. He even said that the “nuclear option” might have to be considered, by which I presume he meant the closure of all, or maybe part, of the education service that is currently provided by the college. Do you have any reflections on that perspective?

11:15  

Public Audit Committee

“Our impact: Monitoring and evaluation report 2025”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 3 is consideration of the Audit Scotland report “Our impact: Monitoring and Evaluation Report 2025”. We are again joined by the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle, and alongside Mr Boyle is Mark MacPherson—you are welcome back, Mr MacPherson—and Michelle Borland, who is the head of organisational improvement at Audit Scotland. We have one or two questions to put to you but, before we get to those, Auditor General, I invite you to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

“Our impact: Monitoring and evaluation report 2025”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Mr Brown will ask some questions about social media and media in general and so on but, before we get to those, I invite the deputy convener to put a couple of questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Our impact: Monitoring and evaluation report 2025”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

On that note, I draw this session to a close. I thank Michelle Borland, Martin MacPherson and Stephen Boyle for their evidence on that report. It is a theme that we will return to, and I am sure it will be part of our deliberations when we consider our legacy report for the next session of Parliament.

As agreed earlier by the committee, I will now move us into private session.

11:52 Meeting continued in private until 12:05.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

But, as I understand it, the exodus of staff—or the big turnover of staff—happened this year, in 2025, did it not? The report is on the financial year 2023-24, when there was the complete absence of any budget.

Auditor General, you are presenting this report to Parliament because you have serious concerns about what happened. I suppose that the question is why those serious concerns were not picked up at an earlier point by either UHI or the Scottish Funding Council.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. I am going to move things along and invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

I read a report that suggested that, under the principal and CEO who has now left but who held that position at the time of the audit, there were five different finance directors, which again is an interesting indication of the instability of that function inside the college.

Public Audit Committee

“Our impact: Monitoring and evaluation report 2025”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. You mentioned the importance of monitoring and evaluation in making a difference. Could you explain how the monitoring and evaluation framework makes a difference?

Public Audit Committee

“Our impact: Monitoring and evaluation report 2025”

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bring in Keith Brown at this point.