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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3918 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks, Mr McGregor. That is helpful.

I want to go back to a point that Jo Green made a few minutes ago. Jo, you told us that the public register is the one service that is not currently available as a result of the cyberattack. For the layperson, will you explain what information is captured in the public register and what we cannot see that we normally would be able to see? When do you expect the public register to come back online?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is consideration of “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses this morning, all of whom join us online, as does our deputy convener, Sharon Dowey. I welcome from the Scottish Environment Protection Agency: Jo Green, acting chief executive; Stuart McGregor, chief finance officer; and David Pirie, executive director, evidence and flooding. From the Scottish Government I welcome: Roy Brannen, interim director general, net zero; Helen Nisbet, director, defence, security and cyber resilience; and Kevin Quinlan, director, environment and forestry.

As we are quite tight for time this morning, I would appreciate succinct questions from committee members and succinct answers. On 31 March, the committee will take evidence on major information and communications technology projects in general, at which point we will look at some of the wider read-across from the cyberattack that SEPA sustained and the lessons that we need to learn. I encourage people to be as disciplined as possible, but I hope that our line of questioning will take that into account, too.

Jo Green and Roy Brannen should feel free to bring their colleagues in, if it will be helpful. If those who join us online want to come in at any point to give evidence in the conversation that we are having, they should type R in the chat function, and we will pick them up at the appropriate time.

I invite Jo Green, who had hoped to attend the meeting in person this morning, but is joining us virtually, to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

As I mentioned, some of those broader themes will be picked up in the evidence session that we have planned for 31 March.

That brings us to the end of our short evidence session on the report on SEPA. I once again thank Jo Green, acting chief executive of SEPA, Stuart McGregor and David Pirie, who joined us visually and by audio only at points. Thank you very much for the evidence that you have given us, which has been valuable. I also thank Roy Brannen, Helen Nisbet and Kevin Quinlan from the Scottish Government, who also joined us. If there are any points that, on reflection, you feel that it would be useful for us to have, by all means submit them to us in writing—we would receive them gratefully.

I briefly suspend the meeting so that we can have a changeover of witnesses.

09:51 Meeting suspended.  

09:52 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

We will keep an eye on future trade union and Royal College of Nursing surveys to see whether there is any movement backwards or forwards.

Craig Hoy has a series of questions on the diagnosis and treatment backlog element of the report.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

We have been having some problems with David Pirie’s connection. I cannot see him on my screen. We were going to put him on audio only, but he does not appear to be there.

Is there anyone else on your team who could pick that up? If not, I will ask Willie Coffey to move on to his next question.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

That would be fine. We always have the option of asking you to provide us with a written response to any of our questions if, at this point, you are unable to answer them to the fullest extent that you would like to.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks, Willie.

Are there any health boards or parts of the NHS that carry out exit interviews to understand why people are leaving, such as because of retirement or better pay elsewhere?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks. That is very helpful. It is surely about retention as well as recruitment, isn’t it?

10:45  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

I will come back to the funding formula, which is the subject of review at the moment.

Another aspect of the report that set out pretty clearly the financial challenges that the NHS in Scotland faces is exhibit 8, which contains a breakdown of funding by key items such as drug and medical supplies. The amount that was spent on prescribed drugs in secondary care was £818 million; the amount was more than £1 billion in primary care. We know about the spending on PPE, testing kits, further medical supplies and so on.

To what extent is the Scottish Government taking into consideration the fact that we expect there to be further inflationary rises or increases in demand that will lead to a requirement for an increased budget to meet such items?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

The roll call of NHS boards that are in a very tricky financial position includes small boards such as NHS Orkney but also NHS Fife, NHS Ayrshire and Arran, NHS Borders, NHS Dumfries and Galloway and NHS Highland, which I mentioned earlier. It is a substantial issue.

You mentioned that the funding formula was being reviewed, presumably to appreciate whether funds are being distributed as effectively, efficiently and equally as they ought to be. The committee’s understanding is that dates have not been set for the completion or implementation of the review. Are you any the wiser as to when there are likely to be changes, what those changes might be, what criteria are driving the review of the funding formula and, potentially, the allocation of funding between different territorial boards, as well as between different NHS tiers?