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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3918 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Drug and alcohol services: An update”

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

Richard Leonard

We understand that, and it would be helpful to return to it. One of the overarching questions that came out of the briefing—which many people looking at this whole area of public policy ask—is why, despite the fact that there are now new initiatives, it has taken so long, given that you were evaluating it all those years ago in 2009. During that time, things have not got better—they have got worse.

Public Audit Committee

“Drug and alcohol services: An update”

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that opening statement.

The first lines of the update paper are a stark reminder of the situation that we find ourselves in. They say:

“In Scotland, 1,339 people died from drug-related causes in 2020—the highest ever reported and the highest rate in Europe.”

However, as you have just said, you view progress as having been slow. In the report, you say that there is

“a lack of drive and leadership by the Scottish Government.”

To what extent did the Scottish Government respond to the clear recommendations that you made more than a decade ago, in 2009?

Public Audit Committee

“Drug and alcohol services: An update”

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. On that note, we will draw this evidence session to an end. Thanks, as always, to the Auditor General, and to Antony Clark and Jillian Matthew, for joining us this morning. We have looked with a great deal of interest at the briefing paper and the evidence that you have provided, and we will clearly need to consider our next steps. Thank you very much for your time this morning.

11:11 Meeting continued in private until 11:43.  

Public Audit Committee

Major Information and Communications Technology Projects (Accountability and Governance)

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I thank the witnesses for their evidence. There are some issues that we will be keen to pursue. As I mentioned earlier, we hope to have a session with the accountable officers for particular projects that have exercised our interest.

I thank Geoff Huggins, Jonathan Ruff, Sharon Fairweather and Donald McGillivray for presenting themselves before the committee; it is appreciated.

I suspend the meeting while we change witnesses.

10:15 Meeting suspended.  

10:18 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

Major Information and Communications Technology Projects (Accountability and Governance)

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

Richard Leonard

One reason why the committee has had an interest in major ICT projects down the years is because there have been some fairly notorious cost overruns and failed applications such as those in NHS 24, the Scottish Public Pensions Agency, the common agricultural policy futures programme and the police i6 project, which has been mentioned.

I want to go back to your point that there is an existing structure of accountable officers. The committee has previously said that a much firmer grip needs to be taken of the issue and that there need to be much clearer lines of responsibility. As I understand it from reading the list of Police Scotland IT projects, it has five or six on at the moment—well, five, anyway. There are projects on the unified communications and contact platform, digital evidence-sharing capability, the national integrated command and control system, core operational solutions and mobile working. Who has oversight of all those different projects?

Public Audit Committee

Major Information and Communications Technology Projects (Accountability and Governance)

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

Richard Leonard

What is different now compared to the position when the i6 project was under way?

Public Audit Committee

Major Information and Communications Technology Projects (Accountability and Governance)

Meeting date: 31 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Moving on to questions on governance, assurance and oversight of major ICT projects, I call Willie Coffey, who also joins us by videolink.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. We will return to some of those issues later.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks. I ask Willie Coffey to come in with a number of questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Fran Pacitti, I do not want to put the blame on your shoulders at all, but I observe that your job title is director of aviation, maritime, freight and canals, which gives a flavour of the scope of the areas in which Transport Scotland is involved. I presume that, in those sectors, there are engineering-related assets as well as land and natural assets, so did you not have expertise that you could have brought to bear in order to give advice to Scottish Canals about carrying out the work?