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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 1 December 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

I welcome everybody to the Public Audit Committee’s eighth meeting in this session of Parliament. I remind witnesses, staff and members to respect rules on social distancing and that, if they are moving around or entering or leaving the room, they should wear a face covering.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on whether to take business in private. Do members agree to take items 4, 5 and 6 in private.

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

The principal business of the first of our two evidence sessions this morning is consideration of a section 22 report that was published on 13 October. I am delighted to welcome our witnesses: Stephen Boyle is the Auditor General for Scotland, and joining us remotely are Graeme Greenhill, senior manager for performance audit and best value at Audit Scotland, and Pat Kenny from Deloitte LLP, who worked on the audit and assurance in reference to this audit of the Crofting Commission. I invite the Auditor General to make an opening statement before we proceed to our questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

I am sure that we will return to some of those themes. Willie Coffey has a laser-like focus on an area of the report that caused real alarm among the committee.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

Graeme Greenhill wants to come in on this.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS National Services Scotland”; and “Personal protective equipment”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

Thank you for that clarification. The question was not designed to catch you out. It is just that we want to understand better how you arrived at your conclusions.

One of the other issues that features in the report is that costings were done at pace, especially in the early days. Contract approval documents were not completed to a consistent level of detail, as you already mentioned, and concerns are raised in the report about the scrutiny of contracts before their conclusion. Will you give us a picture of the extent to which that was prevalent at the beginning of the pandemic, when there was urgency, and the extent to which it continued as a practice over the months after the initial spike in demand for PPE?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

How confident are you that the new arrangements will allow issues to be spotted and addressed early, without the need for another section 22 report from Audit Scotland?

09:30  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS National Services Scotland”; and “Personal protective equipment”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

I also note that the report mentions Scottish Enterprise visiting overseas factories, which I presume was part of some kind of due diligence process. Will you expand on that to give us a bit more sense of what is contained in the due diligence guidance that is being pursued? For example, does it include matters such as labour standards and whether forced or exploitative labour is involved or what conditions are like in the factories that it visits at home as well as abroad? Will you elaborate on that part of the report?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

I am keen to move things on. I will bring in Sharon Dowey, who has a couple of questions to ask.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

We will certainly reflect on that. Sharon Dowey has a final point and question.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS National Services Scotland”; and “Personal protective equipment”

Meeting date: 4 November 2021

Richard Leonard

For the next item, I welcome two new witnesses from Audit Scotland, who join the Auditor General. Joining us remotely is Ashleigh Madjitey. If you want to come in at any point you can put an R in the chat function. That would be helpful. My apologies—Carole Grant joins us remotely. She is an audit director in audit services at Audit Scotland. I welcome Carole, and I welcome Ashleigh, who is here with us in the room, to talk about the fuller 2020-21 audit and the subsequent, more recent, briefing on personal protective equipment. We have a series of questions to ask our witnesses. Auditor General, do you want to begin with an opening statement to get us under way?