The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 3918 contributions
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 April 2022
Richard Leonard
In relation to the contract arrangements after nationalisation, you highlight in paragraph 105 of the report that there was quite a fundamental shift, with the contract changing from a fixed-price tender basis to a cost-plus basis. You say that the Scottish Government agreed to
“paying the additional vessel costs, regardless of the final price.”
Do you have a view on that decision?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 April 2022
Richard Leonard
On a point that is related to that, a couple of paragraphs later on in the report, at paragraph 108, you inform us that CMAL, which is the purchaser, also became the technical consultant. Does that not blur the lines and even, potentially, represent a conflict of interest?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 April 2022
Richard Leonard
I am sure that, after discussion, we will reach that point.
In the remaining few minutes, I want to give Rhoda Grant, who is joining us remotely, an opportunity to ask questions. Rhoda, is, of course, an MSP for the Highlands and Islands, and she will, I hope, be served by the ferries, if they eventually set sail.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 April 2022
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed. Colin Beattie has a series of questions that he wants to put to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 April 2022
Richard Leonard
Sharon Dowey has a couple of questions that follow on neatly from that.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 April 2022
Richard Leonard
I think that Boyd Robertson wanted to come in but, given that we are pressed for time, I will bring in Craig Hoy. If Mr Robertson still wants to say something after Craig Hoy’s questions, I will see whether we have any time for that.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 April 2022
Richard Leonard
We have only a couple of minutes remaining. I mentioned at the start that Rhoda Grant joins us this morning. Do you have any final thoughts or questions to put to the panel from NHS Highland, Rhoda?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 April 2022
Richard Leonard
Item 3 is the continuation of our evidence session with the Auditor General and his team on the report into new vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides. We are pleased to welcome back the Auditor General, who is joined again by Angela Canning and Antony Clark. I thank them for coming back so quickly to help us keep the momentum of our scrutiny going.
Auditor General, you gave an opening statement last week and I will not ask you to repeat that. With your forbearance, I will move straight to questions.
Rhoda Grant is also joining us again remotely. If she wants to come in, she should indicate that via the chat function and we will attempt to bring her in.
I will begin by recapping a couple of areas from last week and seeking a bit more clarity. In the evidence that you gave last week, Auditor General, you said that we
“do not know on what basis”
ministers agreed to take the risk of placing the order for vessels 801 and 801 with Ferguson Marine Engineering Ltd on the basis of a non-standard contract. You said that
“there is no documentary evidence of how those risks were considered or how it was intended that they would be managed during the running of the contract”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 21 April 2022; c 28, 27.]
I ask you to reflect on something that the First Minister said to Parliament on 24 March. When asked about documentary evidence, she said:
“Many of the documents that relate to the decision have been in the public domain for some time. They clearly narrate the issue of the lack of a full-refund guarantee. They also clearly narrate the mitigations that were put in place to reduce that risk.”—[Official Report, 24 March 2022; c 11.]
Please give your comments on the view expressed by the First Minister.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 April 2022
Richard Leonard
I was going to turn to that next.
In the light of the questioning of the First Minister last Friday, a Scottish Government official was reported to have said:
“A thorough search has been conducted and the ... documentation cannot be located.”
On Tuesday, that was confirmed in the Parliament by the Minister for Business, Trade, Tourism and Enterprise, who said that, following “a thorough search”, the documentation could not be located.
I turn to section 24 of the Public Finance and Accountability (Scotland) Act 2000, which, I am reminded, is headed
“Access to documents and information”.
The 2000 act is fairly clear that, for a section 23 report such as this one, the examiner from Audit Scotland is entitled under section 24(3)(a)
“to ... have access at all reasonable times to any document in the possession, or under the control, of the body or office-holder in question which the examiner may reasonably require”.
It appears that that document does not exist. However, the 2000 act goes on to say under section 24(3)(b) that the examiner is entitled
“to ... require from any person holding, or accountable for, any such document any assistance, information or explanation which the examiner reasonably thinks necessary”.
Does that cover information and explanation as to why documents do not exist?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 28 April 2022
Richard Leonard
Okay, Mr Clark, I will leave the redresses to you or the Auditor General. Did you get an explanation as to why that documentary evidence did not exist?
10:00