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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 August 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Does Willie Coffey want to come in?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

One of the things that is mentioned in the report, which I think Mr Boyle referred to, is data. Paragraph 25 of the report puts it very starkly when it says:

“The Scottish Government’s national aim is to improve outcomes for all, but it has not set out by how much or by when.”

From an auditing perspective, that sounds like quite a major flaw, doesn’t it?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

We will return to some of these themes during the course of this morning’s session. As you stated at the beginning, the report takes us up to January 2021 and, obviously, quite a lot has happened since that time. Have you been able to gather any more information about where things are now? Have you been able to understand whether some of the actions that were recommended in your report, for example, have been followed up at a central and local government level?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Thank you. That has been a very useful line of questioning. I will now turn to Colin Beattie, who has a number of questions around outcomes.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Craig Hoy has a series of questions. I think that he wants to make a declaration of interests before he puts his questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

I think that Antony Clark wants to come in with a few points on the same area.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

The main purpose of this morning’s session is to look at the section 23 report that was brought out in March this year jointly by the Auditor General for Scotland and the Accounts Commission, which looked at improving outcomes for young people through school education.

I am delighted once again to welcome the Auditor General, who is here with us in person this morning. There are also three of his colleagues who worked on the report joining us via videolink: Antony Clark, interim director of performance audit and best value; Tricia Meldrum, senior audit manager; and Zoe McGuire, senior auditor in performance audit and best value. Welcome to all four of you. We have quite a number of questions to put this morning but, before we do that, Auditor General, could you give us a brief introductory statement?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everybody to the third meeting of the Public Audit Committee in this session of Parliament. I begin by reminding everybody about Parliament’s rules on social distancing and also the requirement to wear face masks if you are moving around the room or entering or leaving the room.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on whether to take items 3 and 4 in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

Tricia Meldrum, do you want to come in on the questions that Sharon Dowey put?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report

Meeting date: 9 September 2021

Richard Leonard

I will end with a couple of questions about the money. If I read it correctly, the report seems to conclude that while overall total national education spending on schools rose between 2013-14 and 2018-19 by 0.7 per cent in real terms, there was quite a bit of variation within that. One of the things that struck me was that the report concluded that in those councils that were targeted for attainment Scotland funding, there was quite a variation.

For example—keep me right if I am wrong on this—my understanding is that with the exception of Glasgow City Council all the attainment challenge councils saw a drop in education spending in that period if you exclude the attainment Scotland funding. I thought that the attainment Scotland funding was meant to be additional, to tackle a particular problem. Do you have any reflections or comments on that and do you have a view about the impact on councils in which there was a reduction in the budget for mainstream operational spending?