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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 June 2022
Richard Leonard
That would be in 2023.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 June 2022
Richard Leonard
We are really pushed for time, so, if you could make your final point very short, that would be very welcome.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 June 2022
Richard Leonard
We have run out of time. As you say, Mr Hobbs, we might want to explore further issues with you, but I thank all three witnesses for the time that they have given us this morning and for their openness. That has been appreciated.
As I mentioned at the start of the meeting, we have been able to publish some written evidence. We are keen to publish subsequent evidence, but we have to go through a certain due process in order to put that into the public domain. We will do that and give the matter further consideration. We might come back to the witnesses with questions that arise from that process. As a committee, we will also need to consider whether there would be value in having a further evidence session, because we have covered some areas in some detail, but we probably have not had the time to scrutinise other areas as much as we would have liked—it might not feel like that to the witnesses, from their end, but that is our take. I thank them once again.
I will suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of witnesses.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 30 June 2022
Richard Leonard
The next item on our agenda is consideration of evidence and witness information on major capital projects in Scotland, which the committee has taken a long-standing interest in. I am delighted to welcome Helen Carter, deputy director, infrastructure and investment, Scottish Government; Lawrence Shackman, director of major projects, Scottish Government; and Bill Reeve, director of rail, Transport Scotland. We have a fairly limited amount of time this morning but we will try to maximise the best use of it.
I have a couple of opening issues that I want to explore. My first question is partly for my benefit. We have received a briefing that suggests that, as far as the capital budget allocations that you have are concerned, there has been a higher than expected financial transactions budget allocation but a lower than expected capital budgets allocation over the next few years. What do the financial transactions budget allocations derive from and where do the capital budget allocations come from? Helen Carter, could you answer that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 23 June 2022
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 19th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2022. Under item 1, does the committee agree to take agenda items 4 and 5 in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 23 June 2022
Richard Leonard
Thank you for that introduction. The watchword this morning might well be “transparency”.
I will ask the first question. What were the criteria for allocation between the different funds? Have you been able to establish why certain funds were of a certain value and others were of a different value? What work have you done to establish whether those funds were value for money?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 23 June 2022
Richard Leonard
I am not sure that it is that keen if that undertaking was given three months ago and it still has not been fulfilled, but the committee can take a view on that.
It is not unusual for you to sit before us and talk about a lack of good-quality data. Looking at the reports that are before us today, it seems to me that that is really what you are saying again. Given the investigations that you have already conducted, how confident are you that we will get the good-quality data that allows for the transparency that we all want to see?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 23 June 2022
Richard Leonard
I have one final question. There are examples of companies that have taken millions in furlough money—I know that that support is reserved to the UK—but have also taken millions in Government compensation towards their fixed costs. I see that in the same financial year, those companies that are taking that significant amount of public money are also paying out substantial dividends to shareholders or doubling their directors’ pay. Some of those companies are registered in tax havens. Were any of those things taken into consideration in drafting the criteria for who was eligible for Government support?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 23 June 2022
Richard Leonard
Craig Hoy has some more questions about fraud.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 23 June 2022
Richard Leonard
On that point, do we know the number of jobs that were lost as a result of 5.4 per cent of private sector businesses ceasing to operate? I take it that that is a net figure. Do we know yet what sectors those jobs were in?