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The Scottish Parliament is now dissolved ahead of the election on Thursday 7 May 2026.

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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3918 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

My understanding is that CalMac cannot refuse the ferries, for example; it will be required to operate them. We have received evidence from people that suggests that there will be problems because of the length of time that it has taken to build the vessels. You do not see that.

Public Audit Committee

Major Capital Projects

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed, Bill. I should have declared my interest as the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers parliamentary convener. In that capacity, I might dispute some of your views about the settled patterns as they will be in the future compared to coming out of the pandemic.

Willie Coffey is trying his best to get in, and I am going to give him the last word before I conclude the meeting.

Public Audit Committee

Major Capital Projects

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Do you do any work to disentangle the relative weight and impact of Covid, the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Brexit and so on and the effect that they are having on your supply chain costs and availability?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

We have two evidence sessions this morning and the first is a continuation of our inquiries into the Audit Scotland report “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”. Joining us this morning—in the room rather than remotely, I am pleased to say—we have Kevin Hobbs, the chief executive officer of Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd, and Morag McNeill, the interim chair of the board; we also have Erik Østergaard, who was formerly the chair of CMAL and is now the chair of David MacBrayne Ltd.

I will invite Morag to give us a short opening statement. Thank you for providing us with a written submission, which we found very helpful. It has been published on our website. We got some further material yesterday; we have to make sure that it is cleansed, data-wise and so on, so we have not been able to publish that yet and we cannot refer to that material this morning. We hope to be able to publish it over the next few days. That may well mean that we will return to you to seek further particulars and search a bit more into what you have provided us with—we may even invite you back to give us more oral evidence—but we will see how things go this morning.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. You set out quite a lot of the ground that we want to cover this morning. To pick up on one point that you made, do you accept the recommendations of the Audit Scotland report?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

There was an internal email, issued on 20 August, that recommended that Mr Mackay lead on the announcement, but you are saying that, by the next day, there had been an intervention that meant that the First Minister was leading on the announcement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Had you been available to attend, would you have attended?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

Interestingly, since January, you have been the chair of David MacBrayne Ltd, so you have gone from being part of the client body to being the chair of the body that will receive and operate the ferries.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

I go back to what was said at the beginning of the evidence session. You were the chair of the board that signed off on the contracts—whether by instruction or otherwise—and you are now the chair of the board that will, I hope, be in receipt of the ferries.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 30 June 2022

Richard Leonard

For us, this is not just about the contractual relationship and the business refund guarantee arrangements; it is about the fact that the ferries are five years late and counting and are two and a half times over budget and counting.