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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 1 September 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Richard Leonard

We will look at your evidence and at the supporting documents to which you have referred.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS National Services Scotland”; and “Personal protective equipment”

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Richard Leonard

Thanks very much to both of you. I will start with a specific question on PPE supply chains. We have looked in awe at the growth in the domestic supply of PPE from zero to 88 per cent. That has been one of the more interesting consequences of the pandemic that we have been living through.

Can Mary Morgan tell us what the balance of trade is now? Are we still importing some PPE? If so, where from? The committee is also interested in whether, given the growth of the PPE supply chain in Scotland, we are in a position to supply international markets, including the lesser-developed parts of the world that perhaps need PPE at a time when we appear to have at least as much as we need or possibly even a surplus.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS National Services Scotland”; and “Personal protective equipment”

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Richard Leonard

One of the other things that you mentioned in your opening statement was the Louisa Jordan hospital—a 300-bed facility with the option of expanding to 1,000 beds—which was set up in a rapid timeframe. One of the things that occur to me as we approach the pressures of winter is to ask what has happened to that equipment. Where have those beds and the rest of the supporting equipment gone? Can Mary or Caroline answer that question?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS National Services Scotland”; and “Personal protective equipment”

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Richard Leonard

I call Sharon Dowey, after which we will move to Willie Coffey.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Richard Leonard

Maybe I am misreading the situation, but is not it odd that the directly elected commissioners do not shape the budget of the Crofting Commission, or were excluded from the process? Mr Barron, I know that you said that that was the normal state of affairs, but why would that be? I do not understand that.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Richard Leonard

I also picked up the suggestion that there ought to be an accountable officer who would be a deputy to Mr Barron. Is that part of the plan?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Richard Leonard

That would be helpful.

I have just a couple more questions. When he gave evidence to the committee on the section 22 report, the Auditor General for Scotland said that there is an “Improvement Plan”—which I believe had a capital I and capital P. Can you give us an insight into where you are on that journey?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Richard Leonard

My final question is on an issue that, again, we reflected on in the evidence session with the Auditor General. I think that a report with recommendations was produced by consultants in 2016. It appears that some of the recommendations that have come from the Deloitte audit echo issues that were raised then. The question that lingers in my mind—forgive me for missing the first part of the meeting—is this: what confidence can we, as the Public Audit Committee of the Parliament, have that things will be different this time, and that the improvement plan will be implemented and some fundamental issues addressed and solved?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Crofting Commission”

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Richard Leonard

Mr Barron described the situation as being not untypical of what happens in other parts of the public sector. When I read and understand what has happened, I see a high degree of turbulence. The former convener left and the one before that left under extraordinary circumstances that I have not quite got to the bottom of. There was, of course, also a vote of no confidence or a call for your resignation. Those instances are not necessarily recognisable as typical of how things have been in other parts of the public sector.

We are asking these questions not because we want you to fail but because we want you to succeed. It is extremely important that the crofting communities and the crofting way of life be sustained, sustainable and successful. You have a key part to play in that, so I wish you well.

I presume that there is a continuing relationship with the auditors from Deloitte so that they can help you and work with you through the improvement plan to ensure that things get on to a sustainable track that will lead to the support that the crofting communities need.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of NHS National Services Scotland”; and “Personal protective equipment”

Meeting date: 2 December 2021

Richard Leonard

On that note, I will not bring in Gordon Beattie, and we will finish there. Caroline Lamb’s point is absolutely correct, and workforce planning is one of the things that the committee concerns itself with on a regular basis. If there are staff shortages or other staff issues, we are keen to learn about those and encourage organisations to address them and keep them as a priority. As Willie Coffey said, staff’s efforts have been monumental and they will continue to need to be as we look to the future.

I thank everybody who joined us to give evidence—Mary Morgan, Carolyn Low and Gordon Beattie from NSS and Caroline Lamb and Richard McCallum from the NHS and the Government directorate.

I now close the public part of the meeting.

11:05 Meeting continued in private until 11:35.