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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 30 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Planning for Skills”

Meeting date: 10 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. That concludes our questions for this session. I think I said at the start that it was a section 22 report. It was a section 23 report, but contained some trenchant criticism nonetheless. Sharon Dowey referred to the fact that this is apprenticeship week and there have been numerous references to last week’s publication of the national strategy for economic transformation, which said:

“A skilled population is fundamental to business productivity and economic prosperity.”

For those reasons it is important that we get these things right and we do not preside over some pretty fundamental—“systematic” is a word that has been used wisely this morning—failures.

The only other point I would make is that we will of course have an opportunity to look at the shared outcomes framework document in due course, and we shall do that. I am quite sure that the Auditor General will want to have a look at it as well. We will do that and we may well come back to you with further questions, Mr Griffin. That leads me to my final point: if we had known about the timing of this important document, which is absolutely central to the discussions that we have had this morning, we could have rescheduled this evidence session so that we could have taken full account of it. I hope that that is one of the things that you and your team will think about after leaving this meeting.

I will draw the public part of the meeting to a close and thank the director general for his evidence. I also thank Helena Gray and Adam Reid, and Helen Webster, who joined us online.

10:12 Meeting continued in private until 11:16.  

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for Skills”

Meeting date: 10 March 2022

Richard Leonard

I will now invite Craig Hoy to ask questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for Skills”

Meeting date: 10 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Is there a reason why it was so late?

Public Audit Committee

“Planning for Skills”

Meeting date: 10 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Willie Coffey has questions about monitoring and reporting arrangements.

Public Audit Committee

“Social care briefing”

Meeting date: 3 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Sharon Dowey has a series of questions to put.

Public Audit Committee

“Social care briefing”

Meeting date: 3 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Antony Clark mentioned change and reform being on the agenda, and Craig Hoy has a final series of questions about what the future holds.

Public Audit Committee

“Social care briefing”

Meeting date: 3 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you. Mr Hoy, I fear that you veered into an area of policy and ideology there, which is certainly not the remit of this committee.

Auditor General, this is a debate that the whole Parliament is going to engage in over the next few years, but I think that you have made the point repeatedly this morning, as well as in the briefing, that there are some urgent issues that need to be addressed alongside the Parliament’s deliberations on the reform of the system.

You also mentioned your interest, which we share, about what happened to the £500 million cash injection and how much of it went into social care commissioning. If you get to the bottom of that, we would appreciate your sharing that with us, because we are anxious to track where the money has gone.

We also heard about skills development and about the innovative things that Edinburgh College shared with us in a round-table discussion that the committee held late last year. Next week, we will have the director general for education and justice giving evidence on the planning for skills agenda. We clearly have quite a lot of shared interests. What is going on in the care sector is absolutely central to what is happening in the planning for skills work that the Scottish Government is leading on.

I thank Antony Clark and Shelagh Stewart, who joined us online this morning, and, as always, I thank you, Auditor General, for producing the briefing and answering our questions on it.

10:19 Meeting continued in private until 11:34.  

Public Audit Committee

“Social care briefing”

Meeting date: 3 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is consideration of the “Social care briefing” that the Auditor General for Scotland and the Accounts Commission published at the end of January. I welcome committee member Willie Coffey, who joins us remotely. We are joined in the committee room by Stephen Boyle—welcome, Auditor General—and remotely by his team: Antony Clark, who is interim director of performance audit and best value at Audit Scotland; and Shelagh Stewart, who is audit manager in performance audit and best value at Audit Scotland. You are both welcome.

I say to Antony, Shelagh and Willie that, if you would like to come in at any point, please put an R in the chat box function and we will endeavour to bring you in. I am quite sure that the Auditor General may well defer to Antony and Shelagh to provide some of the evidence that we will be looking for.

I invite the Auditor General to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

“Social care briefing”

Meeting date: 3 March 2022

Richard Leonard

That is fine. Thank you very much.

We have mentioned the social care workforce a few times already. Willie Coffey, who is joining us remotely, has some questions on that.

Public Audit Committee

“Social care briefing”

Meeting date: 3 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Antony Clark wants to come in on that point. I invite him to give some views before Willie Coffey asks his next question.