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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3918 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

I will pick up the point to which Willie Coffey alluded. Paragraph 18 of the Auditor General’s section 22 report points out that, in 2016-17, 43 per cent of complaints against councillors and board members were not pursued further, but, by the time we get to 2020-21, 84 per cent of cases lodged were not pursued. There might have been an increase in vexatious cases that inflated that number, but the Auditor General’s conclusion talks about a “loss of corporate memory” and “significant staff turnover”, and it says:

“it is likely attributable to a change to the way in which incoming complaints were initially assessed.”

I hear what has been said about taking legal advice and not being able to reopen cases. However, someone might have lodged a complaint about the misconduct of a councillor, an MSP, an NHS board member or whoever with an organisation that was clearly malfunctioning, so why is it so categorical that the door is closed to them raising their complaint with an organisation that has now been made fit for purpose but which, according to the section 22 report, was not at that time?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

I am anxious to move on, but I have one almost factual question. Since April 2021, the head of corporate services has been the accountable officer for the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland. We understand that you are in the process of recruiting a new commissioner. Will that new postholder also be the accountable officer?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

That might be a philosophical point, Mr Hoy.

I will look more closely at the pilots. One of the pilots that is highlighted in the report was undertaken in Fife Council on the national entitlement cards for travel. How long did that pilot take place for? What period did it cover?

09:45  

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Yes, a single bus journey of £3.10 may not be worthy of a major national exercise in trying to understand what is happening.

Another interesting area that you mention is the pilot that is under way with Social Security Scotland. That pilot looks particularly at whether there are examples of people claiming benefits as if they are resident in Scotland when they actually are not resident in Scotland and at any cases of people who have multiple addresses and are, therefore, putting in multiple claims. How many matches have you found through that pilot?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Do you have a sense of the scale of that? Is it at the level of national entitlement card fraud in Fife, or is it much more widespread?

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

I do not want to put words in the witnesses’ mouths but they said in answer to the initial question that was put to them on the blue badge scheme that the mortality rate among people with disabilities was higher than that in the general population. That might explain why there was a rise during the period. It is worth waiting to see what the next round of NFI results tells us about that before we jump to any conclusions.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

We have some more questions on that subject. Colin Beattie wants to follow up on that line of questioning.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

I appreciate that. If you can get back to us with those figures, that would be helpful.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Absolutely, and thank you for that undertaking.

I will bring in Willie Coffey, who has questions on areas of future development.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Of course.