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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3918 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much.

I remind people that Colin Beattie is with us, but is joining us remotely.

You have outlined some of the key messages in the report, some of which are quite startling—from gaps in data to your assessment that

“It is not possible to assess the success of the ... first four-year plan”

and that there has not been a demonstrable

“clear shift to preventing child poverty.”

Those are quite important messages and, as you have set out, there are areas in which you are keen that improvements be made.

You finished by explaining that you plan to carry out more work. Will you elaborate on that a little? What further work is already in train or is likely? Will you tell us a little about the timetable that you have set yourself for that?

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

Welcome back. In this session, we will take evidence on the Auditor General’s briefing paper on tackling child poverty in Scotland, which came out on 22 September—so, by our standards, it is relatively hot off the press.

I am pleased that the Auditor General is joined by, from Audit Scotland, Tricia Meldrum, senior manager, and Corrinne Forsyth, senior auditor, performance audit and best value; and I am particularly pleased to welcome Andrew Burns, who is here as a member of the Accounts Commission, because the report was jointly produced by Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission. Andrew, we are delighted that you are able to join us.

I turn first to the Auditor General for an introductory statement, after which we will ask a number of questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks. You mentioned at one point that Covid has had an effect, which we fully appreciate. However, the committee also wants to understand whether the foundations are in place to deliver the data, notwithstanding external factors.

10:30  

We are interested to hear your views on the robustness of the data and on the time lag, because—I presume—that makes it exceptionally difficult for policy makers to base their decisions on current evidence. Parliament has legislated for statutory targets to be met, but if there is no data to understand what progress is being made or what regress is taking place, that makes it pretty hard to give any meaning to the targets that have been set.

Your briefing mentions that new data on levels of child poverty in 2020-21 are expected in 2023. Have you any expectation that that data will be more robust? Will it be better? Will it address the deficiencies that you outlined in the briefing? I am happy for you to bring in the other members of your team, as needed.

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

We now go to questions from Colin Beattie, who joins us remotely.

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Relationships with Public Bodies (Progress Review)

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

Finally, we turn to questions from the committee’s deputy convener, Sharon Dowey.

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

That is helpful. We will come to questions on the local government and health board data collection and reporting mechanism. At this point, Sharon Dowey has a few questions to put to you.

Public Audit Committee

“National Fraud Initiative in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

I thank Antony Clark and Anne Cairns for their time and the level of information that they have given us. It has been really helpful and given us some direct answers to some important questions that we have been keen to put to them. We shall no doubt see them in the future on the NFI.

I suspend the meeting to allow a changeover of witnesses.

10:04 Meeting suspended.  

10:06 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

So it is not something that you would prescribe in the job advertisement and the job description for people applying for the post. I have not looked at the advert. Does it say “You will be the accountable officer”, “You might be the accountable officer” or “You might not be the accountable officer”?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Can I infer from that that your expectation is that the new postholder will be the accountable officer?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you.