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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 September 2025
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Displaying 3298 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. I would concur with Colin Beattie on that final point.

That is the end of the questions that we have on the consolidated accounts. Thank you, Auditor General, for once again giving us the benefit of your wisdom and analysis. I also thank Michael Oliphant and Helen Russell, who joined us online.

We have a changeover of witnesses now, so I will suspend the meeting until that takes place.

10:05 Meeting suspended.  

10:06 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you—that is very helpful.

Another long-standing request—or demand—of Audit Scotland has been for the accounts of the whole of the public sector to be published. To move from one subject to the other, would the publication of the accounts of the whole of the public sector also allow for better scrutiny of the Scottish Government’s investments in private companies?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

In general, but also with particular reference to this arrangement, is there enough transparency and openness about the financial arrangements that have been entered into? I presume that that is also part of your inquiry into what is going on at Port Glasgow.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

We will continue on the theme of workforce issues.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

I want to finish the session with a few short questions. You have catalogued the challenges that the organisation has faced as a result of staff training issues and staff vacancy issues. Arguably, there continue to be significant workload burdens on the staff. There are also issues with funding, and approaches have been made to the corporate body to increase funding. At the same time, the audit report recommends that important pieces of work be carried out, which I presume would be quite substantive, such as the drafting of a full investigations manual. There is also a proposal to bring in an external investigator in order to address some of the deficiencies in the organisation.

In the light of all that, do you think that that will be achievable?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 27 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Earlier, Colin Beattie asked you about where the negotiations between the commissioner’s office and the corporate body on the release of more resources lie. I think that you said that that was still the subject of negotiation. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of National Records of Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Sharon.

I conclude the session by thanking the witnesses—Paul Lowe, Linda Sinclair, Peter Whitehouse and Anne Slater—for joining us. I do not think that we heard from Anne Slater, but she has been on hand to give evidence.

Reflecting on what Paul Lowe said at the beginning, we understand that NRS is not the Office for National Statistics, but it is the body that is charged with delivering the census in Scotland. We are concerned about the efficiency and effectiveness of that process. It is exactly two months to the day until census day on 20 March, and the committee may well invite the witnesses back after the census later in the year—it will be for the committee to decide that—to reflect on how it went and any broader lessons that can be learned, as well as to consider the future.

Paul Lowe said that 10 years is a long time. I am not sure whether the next census will be in 10 years’ time or nine years’ time. We have not touched on that question, but I am sure that we can return to it.

I reiterate that we welcome your commitment to give us a copy of the options appraisal. If any other aspects of the evidence that you have given this morning would be supported well by any written submissions, the committee would welcome that. Thank you for your time and your willingness to answer the questions that we have put.

I suspend the meeting while we change witnesses.

10:11 Meeting suspended.  

10:14 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of National Records of Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Mr Lowe has frozen. I do not know whether we are able to—

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of National Records of Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Richard Leonard

Yes, that is helpful. Nevertheless, I go back to the fact of the matter, which is that in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, the census went ahead in March 2021 and, as I read it, there was a 97 per cent participation rate. You made the point that Scotland had a different status at various points in the month of March 2021. That is clearly a factor but, notwithstanding that, we have been told that one reason why the ONS and the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency were able to go ahead was that they had access to other sources of administrative data, which I presume would be there for them to rely on to add texture to the returns from census day. Can you explain why NRS did not have access to those same sources of administrative data?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of National Records of Scotland”

Meeting date: 20 January 2022

Richard Leonard

We will return to the issue of the digital dimension, which Mr Lowe raised in his answers to Craig Hoy’s questions. I will come to Willie Coffey to ask questions on that. However, before that, I will bring in Colin Beattie to continue on the theme of the financial implications of the delay to the census.