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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3918 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 4 November 2022

Richard Leonard

You mentioned your Government’s decisions, and one matter that is of interest to the committee is what was brought to Cabinet. Was the preferred bidder announcement taken to Cabinet, or were the unconditional financial guarantee of £106 million to CMAL, the £45 million bail out of FMEL, the financial collapse of FMEL or the nationalisation decision taken to Cabinet?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 4 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Are you saying that your senior special adviser did not report back to you about those conversations?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “New vessels for the Clyde and Hebrides: Arrangements to deliver vessels 801 and 802”

Meeting date: 4 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you. I now turn to Willie Coffey, who has a couple more questions to put, after which I will bring in Graham Simpson.

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 3 November 2022

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everybody to the 25th meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee.

Under agenda item 1, do members agree to take item 2 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

09:01 Meeting continued in private until 09:30.  

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thanks.

I want to pick up on the last point and will bring in Andrew Burns to answer. There are four indicators, and the report calls for consistency in their application and use. Perhaps that suggests that, currently, they are not used consistently. For example, I do not know whether some local authorities, with health boards, rely on only one or two of the indicators and not on all four. There might be reasons for that. The committee is interested to understand whether your calling for consistency of application of the suite of indicators at Scottish Government and local government levels implies that that is not happening at the moment.

The Auditor General can start; maybe Andrew Burns can then come in.

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Relationships with Public Bodies (Progress Review)

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

I am about to turn to Colin Beattie. Before I do that, I must observe that Mr Johnston has invariably appeared before us or our predecessor committee when things have gone wrong and when section 22 reports have been conducted by the Auditor General. This morning, we are outside the eye of a crisis and are keen to have an evidence session that allows us to understand how things work now. That is why we are interested in hearing more about where things are going right.

Colin Beattie is joining us online.

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Relationships with Public Bodies (Progress Review)

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

I will just follow up on Colin Beattie’s questions. It would be useful for us to understand what the vacancy rate is now and what it was at the time of the report.

I am also interested in the fact that sponsor roles are not seen as “sexy”—somebody says that in the report; I am not sure that it is the view of the report. I am not sure what that means. People in sponsor roles are in bands A to C. The salary range starts off in the low £20,000s in band A, but goes up to about £76,000 in band C. Are you having difficulty in attracting people to the higher-paid posts or to the lower-paid posts? Where is the problem in that spectrum of pay grades?

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Relationships with Public Bodies (Progress Review)

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

In the end, the test will be how many section 22 reports are brought before us by the Auditor General and whether Mr Johnston has to come before us to defend a situation that arises from failed sponsor arrangements. We have found it really enlightening to hear about the work that is being done to prevent recurrences of those. What I take from the evidence that we have heard is that you are looking in detail at instances in which things have gone wrong to learn lessons from that and to build those lessons into the training that you give to the people who are responsible for ensuring good relationships between sponsor departments and public agencies, non-departmental public bodies and so on.

We are out of time. We would like to follow up on some areas to get more information from you. You have not withheld anything from us; it is just that we have run out of time to get some of the detail that we are looking for.

I thank Paul Johnston, Catriona Maclean and Mary McAllan for their evidence. I suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

10:18 Meeting suspended.  

10:22 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

Scottish Government Relationships with Public Bodies (Progress Review)

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you, director general, for that opening statement. We have quite a number of questions that we want to put to you. They cover much of the ground that you outlined in your opening statement, which was helpful. I turn first of all to Craig Hoy.

Public Audit Committee

“Tackling child poverty”

Meeting date: 6 October 2022

Richard Leonard

I am going to have to draw this session to a close, but I thank Andrew Burns, Corrinne Forsyth, Tricia Meldrum and the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle, for their evidence this morning. I am afraid that we have run out of road, but we might well come back to you to follow up your oral evidence.

I now draw the public part of this morning’s meeting to a close.

11:25 Meeting continued in private until 11:41.