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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
The principal purpose of our meeting is a round table to take evidence on the Accounts Commission’s and Auditor General’s briefing “Tackling child poverty”, which came out in September.
I welcome our witnesses. We very much appreciate your being here and giving up your time. We are looking forward to hearing the evidence that you are going to give us about your understanding of where things are. We are a public audit committee: we will be asking questions about what it is like out there for children who are growing up in Scotland, but we also want to spend a bit of time looking at the data, funding, delivery and outcomes. If you want to come in at any point, just indicate that to me or to the clerks, and we will do our best to bring you in. Do not feel obliged to answer every question that is put, but, if you are particularly keen to come in, we will do our best to bring you in.
One of the outcomes that we are hoping for from today is getting some good-quality information that will feed into the work that the Auditor General has said that he wants to continue doing on child poverty. He has prioritised that. We therefore hope that this morning’s session will inform his work as well as that of this committee and, I am sure, that of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, which is carrying out an investigation into child poverty and the relationship between child poverty and parental employability.
I will start by asking members of the committee and members of the panel to introduce themselves, before we go to the first question.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
We started the meeting talking about the human face of child poverty in Scotland and what is happening, and I want to go around the table to ask for your reflections on what we have discussed.
I also want to ask about a point that is made in the briefing by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, which estimates that
“by October 2022, the inflation rate faced by the least affluent ten per cent of households could be as much as 75 per cent higher than that faced by the most affluent ten per cent.”
The challenges that we have discussed will be accelerated and made even tougher, as is shown by that factual assessment of the discriminatory nature of the cost of living crisis and who is being penalised the most.
I will go around the table, beginning with Bruce Adamson. Do you have any reflections on what that means out there, and do you want to raise any final points on this morning’s session?
10:30Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
There is a famous John Steinbeck quote that says,
“the line between hunger and anger is a thin line”,
which sums up what you are saying.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
Good morning and welcome to the 27th meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee. Under agenda item 1, do committee members agree to take in private item 4?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
Under agenda item 2, do committee members agree to take in private the committee’s business next week, on Thursday 17 November?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
I think that John Dickie wants to come in on that point.
10:00Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
What are your experiences from being involved in the Renfrewshire tackling poverty commission? Does that experience provide an insight into what can be achieved at a local level?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
I will move us on to the funding for the anti-child poverty strategy. I invite Craig Hoy to ask a couple of questions.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
I want to pick up that point with Hanna McCulloch and Matthew Sweeney. Paragraph 44 of the briefing is pretty clear in its critique of the patchy return by local authority area. The briefing says:
“people with experience of living in poverty were rarely involved in developing plans”,
which is the point that John Dickie has just made. The briefing continues:
“only four out of 27 reports available had an introduction signed by the chief executive. The level of sign-off of reports was seen as an indicator of the level of commitment to tackling child poverty”.
It goes on to say that
“most reports used data well in describing their local area”,
but that
“not many reports considered monitoring and evaluation carefully”.
Do you have any reflections on that? Do you accept it as fair criticism?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
It is useful to have that on the record.
Hanna, the briefing mentions the Renfrewshire tackling poverty commission, of which you were a member, if I have been informed correctly.