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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 30 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

That is helpful. I do not wish to labour the point, but for the benefit of people who are watching the meeting and people who have an interest in the good governance and working, and the success of, South Lanarkshire College, will you explain in layperson’s terms what the implication is, or what the risks are, of there being no internal audit function for three months?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

That is reassuring.

I will bring in Graham Simpson, whom I am delighted to welcome to the committee this morning.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Colin Beattie has some questions in an area that the committee is very interested in.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Lucy Nutley, you said that the same law firm is carrying out the two independent investigations with separate teams. How does that work? Is there a Chinese wall between them, or does it not matter that the two investigating teams are from the same firm? Is it intended that they all come together?

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. Thank you.

On that note of clarity, I thank our witnesses Jackie McGeehan, Jonathan Athow, Alyson Stafford and Fiona Thom for the evidence that they have given. We appreciate their time and their contributions.

We will consider what steps to take and how we can keep a monitoring eye on this important work in future. As we have said, we want it, above all, to be evidence led. Whether it is around people’s behavioural patterns, compliance rates, collection rates or people fleeing the country in order to evade or avoid tax, those things are important to us, so I thank you very much for your openness in discussing them with us this morning.

11:09 Meeting continued in private until 11:35.  

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 14th meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2022. Under the first item on our agenda do we agree to take items 4, 5 and 6 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of South Lanarkshire College”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks, Mr Simpson. I appreciate that pointer.

I thank all the members who have participated in this evidence session. I also thank the witnesses—the Auditor General, Rebecca Seidel and Lucy Nutley. Thank you very much for your co-operation and openness about the section 22 audit report that you have been required to produce. We will consider our next steps in relation to pursuing our interest in what, by all accounts—including appendix 1 of the report—looks very much like a public institution that has been in crisis.

I now suspend the meeting to allow a changeover of witnesses to take place.

09:57 Meeting suspended.  

10:00 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 3 is on the administration of Scottish income tax. We took evidence on 3 February on the reports that we had received from Audit Scotland and the National Audit Office. We want to explore further some of the implications of the reports, and we have a series of questions on them.

I welcome our witnesses. Alyson Stafford is director general of the Scottish exchequer, Fiona Thom is head of the income tax and reserved taxes unit at the Scottish Government, Jonathan Athow is director general for customer strategy and tax design at Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, and Jackie McGeehan is deputy director for income tax policy at HMRC. You are all very welcome.

I invite Alyson Stafford to make a short opening statement. We will then proceed to ask a series of questions.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you, but we are still not clear about whether the NAO is included.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2020/21”

Meeting date: 12 May 2022

Richard Leonard

Does it use the NAO’s estimate as part of its deliberations?