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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 December 2022
Richard Leonard
That would be great. You are well versed in dealing with complicated matters and in giving us succinct reports, so thanks for that.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 December 2022
Richard Leonard
I need to refer members to my entry in the register of interests. I want to ask a little bit more about wages and salaries, because that issue is part of your public sector reform agenda and you have mentioned it a couple of times this morning already. Economists often look at wages and salaries as a percentage of overall gross domestic product in the economy as a whole. Have you looked at wages and salaries as a percentage of public expenditure in Scotland over, say, the past decade? Is the percentage going up or down, or is it about the same? If you are not able to supply that information immediately, it would be of great interest if you could follow that up.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 December 2022
Richard Leonard
I conclude the evidence session by thanking Fiona Diggle, Richard Robinson and the Auditor General for the time and evidence that they have given us. We agreed that it would be useful for you to follow up some issues and get back to us on them, and we would welcome receiving that information when you are able to give it to us.
We will now move into private session.
10:22 Meeting continued in private until 11:40.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 December 2022
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 29th meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee.
The first item on our agenda is a decision on whether to take items 3 and 4 in private. Are we all agreed?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 December 2022
Richard Leonard
The report that you published on Covid-19 spending indicated that a very high proportion—I cannot remember the figures off the top of my head—of additional spending that was available to the Scottish Government was the result of Barnett consequentials.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 1 December 2022
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much for setting the scene. We have quite a number of questions on the areas that you have already identified as being critical to the assessment that you have made.
I will ask you first about the timing of the briefing. Obviously, it came out prior to the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s autumn statement, which was made on 17 November. Why produce it prior to that statement? Why not produce it after the statement had been delivered?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
We are coming towards the end of our session. On that last point, Mr Johnston, you said earlier that the data is in place to inform the second phase of the plan, but it is worth reflecting that the key messages in the briefing are quite critical of the Scottish Government. Key message 1 says:
“The Scottish Government has not yet demonstrated a clear shift to preventing child poverty.”
Key message 2 says:
“It is not possible to assess the success of the Scottish Government’s first four-year plan to reduce child poverty, launched in 2018.”
The briefing goes on to cite Bill Scott saying that there is not a link between spending decisions, outcomes and targets being met. That is one reason why we as the Public Audit Committee are keen to keep an eye on the issue and keep scrutinising it, and why the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission want to keep it under their watchful eye and produce further briefings.
Auditor General, do you want to say a word about that before I come to my final question?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
Colin Beattie has more questions on this area.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
Thank you. We will come to the human rights of children quite early on, Bruce.
I will put my first question to John Dickie of the Child Poverty Action Group. Although we are an audit committee, we are also interested in the human face of what is happening out there. Will you start us off by drawing on your experience to give some examples of the impact of living in poverty and of the experiences that you have drawn on from children and families who live below the poverty line?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 10 November 2022
Richard Leonard
One of the themes in the briefing is a return to the Christie commission’s recommendations and the importance of preventative strategies. As I mentioned, it is a joint report by Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission so, for the next series of questions, we will bring in the folk with local authority experience as well as those with central Government experience.