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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 September 2025
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Displaying 3314 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

I want to take you back to the point about GPs. I am at a bit of a loss to understand why the issue is so problematic. Are GPs saying, “We’re so busy getting on with it that we don’t have time to record these things”? Are health boards asking them to do that? Are GPs saying, “We are independent organisations and we make our own determinations about what our priorities are”? Is the issue at the health board level? Why is there such a long-standing problem in finding out that information?

Given that, at the moment, GPs are defending their position and are often under attack because people feel that they are not getting access to them, it seems to me that, if GPs were able to demonstrate with evidence the extent to which they are meeting patient demand, that would serve their cause better, rather than there being a complete absence of data.

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Good morning and welcome to the ninth meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee. Before we begin, I remind members, witnesses and staff who are present that social distancing rules apply in the Parliament, and that they should wear face coverings when entering, leaving or moving around the committee room.

Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking business in private. Do members agree to take items 4, 5 and 6 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much, particularly for that very helpful clarification. Indeed, Willie Coffey will be asking questions on that particular subject later in the meeting.

Sharon Dowey, who, as I said earlier, is joining us via videolink, has a couple of questions to start us off.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 3 is a discussion of the Audit Scotland report “NHS in Scotland 2021”. I am delighted to say that we are joined in the room by the Auditor General for Scotland, Stephen Boyle—welcome, Auditor General. Alongside him, we have Leigh Johnston, senior manager and Derek Hoy, audit manager, Audit Scotland. Eva Thomas-Tudo had hoped to be with us, but unfortunately she is not able to attend.

I invite the Auditor General to make an opening statement, after which we will ask what is quite a wide range of questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

I read in the report that a short-life working group is being established. Again, is that sufficient to properly monitor the impact of the measures?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Again, I think that we will come back to that issue.

You said earlier that one of the central recommendations of your report relates to the very unequal impact that Covid-19 has had. At paragraph 58, you reflect on your “NHS in Scotland 2020” report from last year. You note that you relied on data that was provided by National Records of Scotland and the Scottish Learning Disabilities Observatory, and you conclude—fairly starkly, I thought—that

“Those from the most deprived”

backgrounds

“and from some ethnic minority backgrounds were more likely to die from Covid-19.”

You go on to state that

“Further data has shown that disabled people were more likely to have died from Covid-19”,

and that

“Adults with learning disabilities were also at a greater risk of being hospitalised or dying from Covid-19.”

That is quite harrowing, is it not? To be frank, it is something of an indictment of our society that that is a feature of the pandemic.

You go on to say, a couple of paragraphs later, that you reviewed the situation again this year and found that there was a

“disproportionate impact of Covid-19 on certain groups”.

You say that that has led the Scottish Government to address that situation in some measure by focusing on tackling health inequalities. However, you go on to state:

“but there is no overarching strategy.”

Do you want to say a bit more about that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

I will move on now, as we want to ask questions about the “NHS Recovery Plan 2021-2026”. I ask Willie Coffey to come in.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

On that note, I draw the evidence session to a close. Thanks very much, Auditor General, for the evidence that you have led, and thanks to Leigh Johnston and Derek Hoy, who have also contributed this morning. It is greatly appreciated.

I close the public part of the meeting.

11:06 Meeting continued in private until 11:38.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

The report draws to our attention the additional funding that has been provided for the express purpose of attending to staff wellbeing. I think that the figures are £8 million and £4 million, which does not sound like an awful lot of money compared with the overall NHS budget. Are those amounts addressing the scale of the challenge?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

I am sure that this committee and other committees in the Parliament might well return to that point in the future.

I will move on to another area of interest in the report: long Covid rehabilitation. The report says that

“The Scottish Government has funded nine studies to develop the clinical knowledge base”

for understanding long Covid. Could you give us a bit more information about those studies, including on timescales and how the results will be reported to the Scottish Government to inform its future decision making in the area?