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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 10 September 2025
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Displaying 3314 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Good morning and welcome, everyone, to the 10th meeting in 2022 of the Public Audit Committee.

Before we begin, I remind members, witnesses and staff present that the Parliament’s social distancing rules apply. If you are entering, walking around or leaving the room, I ask that you wear a face covering, please. You do not have to do that when you are seated or when giving evidence.

Item 1 is a decision on whether to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private. Do we agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

You said that you accept the recommendations and analysis in the Auditor General’s report. That includes paragraph 5, which says:

“Scottish Canals will now undertake a new valuation process of the canal infrastructure estate in its entirety during 2022.”

You are committed to doing that, I presume. Audit Scotland goes on to explain why that is important. It is not just a technical exercise of ticking a box to comply with ONS, Her Majesty’s Treasury or Scottish Government requirements; it is about supporting

“preparation of Scottish Canals’ medium-term financial strategy”,

so it is an important and central part of how you plan for the future. You have accepted the deadline. What happens if you do not meet it?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. We will return to some of those issues later.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

That draws to an end the questions that we have for you. We will reflect on the evidence that you have given and we may pursue some lines of inquiry with you after the meeting. Thank you for coming and being present in the committee room. It was good to have people sat in front of us, so that we could properly inquire into your response to the very serious report that Audit Scotland published. I thank Catherine Topley for leading on the evidence; it is appreciated. I also thank Andrew Thin, Sarah Jane Hannah and the team from Transport Scotland—Hugh Gillies, Fran Pacitti and Lee Shedden—for their evidence.

10:06 Meeting continued in private until 11:25.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Okay. I will move things on by inviting Sharon Dowey to ask some questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of Scottish Canals”

Meeting date: 24 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much, indeed, for that comprehensive opening statement, which is useful. I am sure that it will provoke lots of questions.

Craig Hoy will put the opening question to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Thanks, Mr McGregor. That is helpful.

I want to go back to a point that Jo Green made a few minutes ago. Jo, you told us that the public register is the one service that is not currently available as a result of the cyberattack. For the layperson, will you explain what information is captured in the public register and what we cannot see that we normally would be able to see? When do you expect the public register to come back online?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is consideration of “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses this morning, all of whom join us online, as does our deputy convener, Sharon Dowey. I welcome from the Scottish Environment Protection Agency: Jo Green, acting chief executive; Stuart McGregor, chief finance officer; and David Pirie, executive director, evidence and flooding. From the Scottish Government I welcome: Roy Brannen, interim director general, net zero; Helen Nisbet, director, defence, security and cyber resilience; and Kevin Quinlan, director, environment and forestry.

As we are quite tight for time this morning, I would appreciate succinct questions from committee members and succinct answers. On 31 March, the committee will take evidence on major information and communications technology projects in general, at which point we will look at some of the wider read-across from the cyberattack that SEPA sustained and the lessons that we need to learn. I encourage people to be as disciplined as possible, but I hope that our line of questioning will take that into account, too.

Jo Green and Roy Brannen should feel free to bring their colleagues in, if it will be helpful. If those who join us online want to come in at any point to give evidence in the conversation that we are having, they should type R in the chat function, and we will pick them up at the appropriate time.

I invite Jo Green, who had hoped to attend the meeting in person this morning, but is joining us virtually, to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2020/21 audit of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

As I mentioned, some of those broader themes will be picked up in the evidence session that we have planned for 31 March.

That brings us to the end of our short evidence session on the report on SEPA. I once again thank Jo Green, acting chief executive of SEPA, Stuart McGregor and David Pirie, who joined us visually and by audio only at points. Thank you very much for the evidence that you have given us, which has been valuable. I also thank Roy Brannen, Helen Nisbet and Kevin Quinlan from the Scottish Government, who also joined us. If there are any points that, on reflection, you feel that it would be useful for us to have, by all means submit them to us in writing—we would receive them gratefully.

I briefly suspend the meeting so that we can have a changeover of witnesses.

09:51 Meeting suspended.  

09:52 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2021”

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Richard Leonard

I think that the power has been restored, Auditor General, so I will bring you back in. You were telling us about the findings and the evidence that you had looked at in the area of staff wellbeing and about the surveys that organisations such as the Royal College of Nursing had carried out on the views of its members.