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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3918 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

The reason why that is important is not least that, as we reminded you last year when you had just arrived in your post, permanent secretary, it has been on-going since 2016. We were promised whole-of-public-sector consolidated accounts in 2016, and here we are in 2023 at stage 1. In his report, which we are discussing this morning, the Auditor General says:

“The continuing absence of a devolved public sector consolidated account means it is difficult to assess the overall health of Scotland’s public finances at a time of greatest need.”

There is quite an urgency—this is quite imperative. Will you reflect on that after today’s session? I do not sense the urgency that we think is necessary to be applied so that we can get a full picture of what we own and what we owe, which is the expression that the Auditor General has used.

I move on to another area, which is capital borrowing. Back in 2018, I think, the then chief financial officer—it was not you, Jackie McAllister, but one of your predecessors—was able to provide to the committee a list of assets that attracted capital borrowing. Is the Scottish Government able to provide a list of underlying assets for which it uses capital borrowing today?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

It is a higher-than-normal level of risk, is it not, given that the supply chain banker of the organisation went into administration and the Serious Fraud Office is investigating the company because of concerns about fraud and money laundering? Unusually, the auditors that they had resigned, and the finance director walked. It is not just another company; it has been under considerable scrutiny from parliamentary committees, this one included, because there are real, grave concerns about the business model that it operates on.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

We have quite a lot of questions to get through, and I am anxious to press the accelerator a little bit. I invite Willie Coffey to come in.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. For us, it is not just about the £52 million but about the governance arrangements, the outcomes, the whole way in which it operates and whether there is any displacement effect, for example.

09:15  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

I have a couple of quick final questions. First, going back to the GFG Alliance deal, you seemed to suggest that there was no cost to the public purse and that everything was fine, but the Auditor General’s report points out that £13.5 million of Scottish Government loans were written off during 2019-2020 and 2020-21. So there has been some debt write-off there. The provision for the guarantee arrangement is valued at £114 million. I accept that that is less than it was when you sat before us last year, but it is still 300 per cent greater than it was two years ago. There are things going on, and I am sure that you will have seen the Auditor General’s comments about the volatility of the situation and how things can unravel quickly. Can you give us your views on that?

10:30  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Can you tell us more about the timescales that you work to for your borrowing? The fiscal framework has a default position of 10 years, has it not? Do you look at shorter or longer periods than that? How do you come to settle on that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts” and “Scotland’s public finances: Challenges and risks”

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Before we move off this point, can you help us understand whether the green freeport projects, of which there are two in Scotland, will be the subject of scrutiny and audit by the Auditor General for Scotland?

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2021/22”

Meeting date: 9 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. Obviously, the committee will consider what its next steps are on that, but there would be interest in understanding whether private debt collection agencies are now being deployed.

Public Audit Committee

“Administration of Scottish income tax 2021/22”

Meeting date: 9 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Auditor General, I want to touch on something in your report. In paragraph 42, which is in the section on taxpayer behaviour, you say:

“In my view, the publication of the income tax behavioural analysis and the development of a dataset to track taxpayer responses to income tax changes over time is a positive development.”

Can I check with you where that is? I have not seen anything published yet, but is there an expectation that something will be published later this year? Has work been commissioned to get that data set and put it into the public domain?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 9 February 2023

Richard Leonard

Good morning, and welcome, everybody, to the fifth meeting in 2023 of the Public Audit Committee. Under the first item on the committee’s agenda, do members agree to take agenda items 3, 4 and 5 in private?

Members indicated agreement.