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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 July 2025
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Displaying 3287 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bring in Gail Macgregor in a second. Before I do that, however, I will take you back to my question, which was: do you accept the recommendations and findings of the report? Your answer was yes. I note that the number 1 key message in this report is nothing to do with global trends and where things are and what other people are doing.

The Scottish Government set a target of a 20 per cent reduction in car use by 2030. The Scottish Government declared a climate emergency. In that context, the very first page of the report by Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission states that the Scottish Government

“does not have a clear plan”

and that there is a

“lack of leadership”

and

“no costed delivery plan or measurable milestones”.

That is a pretty scathing indictment of the Government, is it not? Do you accept that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

In the evaluation report, you say that car use was measured and the car kilometre metric was used.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

You were—good. Perhaps you can answer the question that we have, then. Was COSLA involved in the setting of the 20 per cent car use reduction target in 2020?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

You certainly do not have to go into it in a lot of detail.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

But more people are also using cars. That is the point, is it not? The balance between public transport use and car use is not moving in the direction of an increased modal shift from the car on to public transport. That is the whole thrust of the report.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Well, he was talking about the rate of change, was he not? You have analysts here, whom you can bring in at any time to answer any of the committee’s questions, if that would help you to defend your position and give you some evidence to support your views.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

I will now move the meeting into private session.

11:30 Meeting continued in private until 12:31.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Do you accept the findings and recommendations of the report that we are considering?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

Yes—and you can rest assured that everything will be in miles, not kilometres.

I would like to reflect on the answers that you have given to Graham Simpson. Back on 26 February, when the Auditor General was sat in the seat that you are sitting in this morning, he said:

“The rate of change suggests that we are moving away from delivering the target rather than moving closer to it.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 26 February 2025; c 3.]

Do you also disagree with his conclusion as far as that is concerned?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Richard Leonard

But that is the target, is it not? That is what the 20 per cent target is based on.