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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Okay—thank you.
Finally, I return to Catherine Etri and Lynn Murray. Again, following the evidence that we took in December, we got a note from Iain Wishart. He wrote to us in what I thought was quite an extraordinary way. He had a section in his letter where he posed the question,
“How Useful is a Budget?”
He gave a three-point list of reasons, from A to C, why it is not especially useful to set a budget. He said:
“While I fully support doing budgets, they are only one tool within financial planning and do have weaknesses”.
I suppose that I am asking you the question, Lynn Murray, as his successor: do you agree with that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Before we leave this area, I go back to Vicki Nairn. You may have seen the submission that we received from the EIS Further Education Lecturers Association dated 15 December. This goes back to the point about what UHI was doing at that point in the history of UHI Perth when budgets were not being set, things were being allowed to drift and there were splits in the board about whether the budget should be set. The EIS-FELA submission talks of the “Inaction” and “lack of action” of the UHI court/regional strategic body. The letter names you, Vicki Nairn. How do you respond to that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Sorry—Alistair Wylie wishes to come in.
10:30Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Thanks. That is useful.
We will have to move things on, so I invite Graham Simpson to put his questions to the witnesses.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
I turn straight to Vicki Nairn for her opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much.
Can each of you tell me whether you accept the findings that are set out in the Audit Scotland section 22 report, beginning with Catherine Etri?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
You can stand by your fax machine and wait for it to come through.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
There is no shortage of challenge. I am sure that the committee will consider whether we want to put some of those challenges to the Government’s representative, as the accountable officer, in future weeks.
For the purposes of today, I will draw the evidence session to a close by thanking Bernie Milligan, Leigh Johnston and the Auditor General for the evidence that they have presented to us. As I said, we will consider our next steps.
As agreed by the committee, I now move the meeting into private.
12:46 Meeting continued in private until 13:05.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
On that more optimistic note, I will draw the session to a close. I thank those of you who have joined us online. We really appreciate you giving up the time. For those of you who have had difficulties with the weather, I hope that it improves for you soon and that you are properly re-engaged. We therefore place on record our thanks to Vicki Nairn, Mike Baxter and Alistair Wylie. We very much appreciate your patience and time, which has been very useful to us, this morning.
I also turn to the witnesses who have managed to make it into Edinburgh. I thank you all for the evidence that you have given us as a committee. It is very much appreciated. Tiffany Ritchie, Jacqui Brasted, Catherine Etri and Lynn Murray, we thank you for your time and for the information that you have been able to give us this morning and the way that you have answered a quite wide-ranging set of questions.
I now suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of witnesses.
11:17 Meeting suspended.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 January 2026
Richard Leonard
Good morning, and welcome back. Agenda item 3 is consideration of the Auditor General’s report “NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”. I am pleased to welcome to the committee Stephen Boyle, the Auditor General, to give evidence on the report. This morning, he is joined by Leigh Johnston, senior manager at Audit Scotland, and Bernie Milligan, audit manager at Audit Scotland.
We have some questions to put to you, but before we get to them, Auditor General, I invite you to make an opening statement.