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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Mr Brannen, I know that you have reflected on the fact that we had an evidence session just before the summer recess on major capital projects, which covered some this ground, but how do you—as the director general of net zero and the accountable officer—account for some of the figures that we saw?
On the emergency energy technologies fund, the planned expenditure is £180 million, but the actual spend is £10 million. On the low-carbon manufacturing challenge fund, the planned expenditure is £26 million, but the actual expenditure is £750,000. On the heat network fund, the planned expenditure is £300 million, but the actual spend is £6.4 million. Finally, on the future transport fund bus priority investment, the planned expenditure is £495 million, but the actual spend is £26 million. Your are in charge of that. What is your reaction to that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Okay. On that note, I draw this morning’s evidence session to a close. I thank Roy Brannen, Kersti Berge and Phil Raines for their time and input—it has been very helpful for us. It may be that we would like to follow up a few things with you, which I am sure that you will be happy to co-operate with us on.
I close the public part of this meeting.
10:34 Meeting continued in private until 11:40.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Well, it is not in the same category. I understand why the Cabinet does not produce its minutes later the same day and that there are year-long rules about when and how Cabinet minutes might be produced—I get that—but this is an operational strategic body that might, in Mr Simpson’s words, be accountable to us as parliamentarians for the decisions that it is taking. I think that there is quite a distinction between a Cabinet—and a Cabinet sub-committee—and this GCE board.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 September 2023
Richard Leonard
So, the outcome is that we then get to see none of that, is it not, Mr Brannen?
09:45Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 7 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Okay. We are a bit pressed for time, so I am going to invite Willie Coffey to put a question to you.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 June 2023
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 20th meeting in 2023 of the Public Audit Committee. We have apologies from Colin Beattie and I am pleased to welcome Bill Kidd in his place. The first item of business is for members to agree on whether to take agenda items 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 in private. Are we agreed?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 June 2023
Richard Leonard
Before I move on to Craig Hoy, I note that when we took evidence last year from Transport Scotland, it described the situation as it was then as “a fairly narrow point” and, again, said:
“it is a narrow point about the evaluation of assets.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 24 March 2022; c 14.]
Is that how you would characterise it?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 June 2023
Richard Leonard
I have a request, which I am really making on behalf of the clerks and the Scottish Parliament information centre, which is to do with the fact that quite often these programmes have a change of name, especially in the domestic marketplace—Kersti Berge knows exactly what I am talking about. The request is, can you make sure that we can follow the thread of where different programmes go when their name changes, so that, when you produce these major capital projects updates for us, we can see what is what?
I invite Bill Kidd to ask a couple more questions.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 June 2023
Richard Leonard
Paragraph 4 of the report is pretty damning, is it not? It says:
“the auditors were unable to conclude whether:
• the annual report and accounts give a true and fair view
• expenditure & income were regular ...
• the Annual Report & Accounts are free from material misstatement
• adequate accounting records have been kept.”
That is a fairly heavy charge sheet, is it not?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 29 June 2023
Richard Leonard
Craig Hoy might also have some questions on this area.