The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 3918 contributions
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you. We have run over our time slightly. I suspect that we could go on much longer, minister, but the committee has another evidence session this morning.
I thank all of you—Fiona Hyslop, Colin Cook, Alison Irvine and Chris Wilcock—for your time and input this morning. There might be things that we want to follow up with you in writing, but I thank you for your openness in answering the questions that we have been putting to you.
I suspend the meeting to allow for a change of witnesses.
10:30 Meeting suspended.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Welcome back to the second session of this morning’s evidence taking by the Public Audit Committee, which will consider the section 22 report by the Auditor General for Scotland on the audit of Scottish Canals.
I welcome our witnesses, who include representatives from Transport Scotland—that is, the Government—and Scottish Canals. From Scottish Canals, we have John Paterson, chief executive; Maureen Campbell, chair of the board; Sarah Jane Hannah, director of finance and business services; and Richard Millar, chief operating officer. From Transport Scotland, we have Alison Irvine, interim chief executive—good morning, Alison; Kerry Twyman, director of finance and corporate services; and Gary Cox, interim director, aviation, maritime, freight and canals.
We have some questions to put to you about the report but, before we do that, I invite Mr Paterson to make a short opening statement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Richard Leonard
You mentioned the former First Minister’s evidence to us. She told us that
“no formal decisions were taken by Cabinet on these matters.”
Was the decision to nationalise the yard, for example, not a Cabinet-level decision?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Richard Leonard
I will quote back to you what the Auditor General’s report says. Paragraph 15 includes expressions such as
“could not be supported by evidence”,
“lack of data”, “potential errors”, “There were errors”, “a lack of documentation”, “several errors” and so on. The report contains quite a catalogue of criticisms of your methodology, all of which has led to a decision not to issue approval of your accounts. As I mentioned earlier, that was described by the Auditor General as “a serious matter”.
From my point of view, I do not want us to be here again in a year’s time, and I am sure that you do not want that, either, but it feels as though we are hearing the same arguments that we heard a year ago. I think that we need persuading that things are moving forward.
Graham Simpson wants to come in.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Yes—if it is a short one.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Richard Leonard
These things we shall return to. Graham Simpson has some questions.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Richard Leonard
We will come on to the business investment framework shortly. I will ask you about the issue of transparency. On 31 May, a meeting took place between the former First Minister and Jim McColl at which no permanent civil servant was present. Does the Scottish Government have a view on that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Richard Leonard
Does the Scottish Government have a view on a meeting between a minister and a private contractor at which no permanent civil servants are present?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Richard Leonard
But not a permanent civil servant.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 21 September 2023
Richard Leonard
That would be helpful, but it sounds a bit like you are saying that you would do the same again.