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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 January 2026
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Displaying 3682 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is further consideration of the Audit Scotland and Accounts Commission report, “Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”. I am pleased to welcome to the committee a large array of witnesses from the Scottish Government, the Scottish Environment Protection Agency and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities.

From the Scottish Government, I welcome the director general for net zero, Roy Brannen. He is with us this morning with Diarmuid Ó Néill, who is the interim director of environment and forestry; Anne Aitken, who is the deputy director of environmental quality and resilience; and Michelagh O’Neill, who is the flooding team leader.

We have representatives from SEPA: I am pleased to welcome Nicole Paterson, who is the chief executive, and Alex Flucker, who is the chief operating officer for data, evidence and innovation. You are very welcome, Mr Flucker.

From COSLA, I am pleased to welcome Gareth Dixon, who is a policy manager on local government finance; Mark Boyd, who is the head of finance at North Ayrshire Council, but is here representing COSLA; and Will Burnish, who is a senior engineer at Moray Council and is representing the Scottish Collaboration of Transportation Specialists, or SCOTS.

We have a number of questions to put that are based on the findings contained in the report but, before we get to those questions, I invite the director general to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I will begin by asking what is for us a standard question. Mr Brannen has, to some extent, addressed this already, but I want to ask each of you in turn whether you accept the findings and recommendations contained in this joint Audit Scotland and Accounts Commission report.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay, thanks.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay, thanks. I call Mr Dixon, on behalf of COSLA.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Richard Leonard

You have been around for a few years, Mr Brannen.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Richard Leonard

If you do not mind, Mr Brannen, I will ask the COSLA representative to give their perspective, because local government is often at the other end of things. We will get into the funding arrangements over the course of this morning, but there is quite a big onus on both local government and central Government to find the capital expenditure required. It is therefore important to understand where the transfer of risk takes place and who is responsible if things fall behind.

Mr Dixon, what is the local government perspective on the gaps and on whether there is clarity on roles and responsibilities?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Following up on the last point, the issue is sometimes whether that matrix has unintended consequences. Certainly, reflecting on the evidence session that we had with the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission, it seems that some study might be useful—it could be done by the Government or by an academic institution—to see whether there is any kind of correlation.

To Mr Burnish’s point, if more housing for working-class communities has been built on flood plains, it might validate the point about where the resilience is being carried out. Conversely, the anecdotal evidence in Audit Scotland and the Accounts Commission’s report suggests that there might be a skew. More organised middle-class communities are certainly sometimes very good at getting decisions to be made.

Mr Ó Néill, do you want to come in on that point?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. That is very helpful.

I will now bring in Graham Simpson to put questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I invite Nicole Paterson to make an opening statement on behalf of SEPA.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Flooding in communities: Moving towards flood resilience”

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay. I can say from my time as convener of this committee that it has not always been the case that timescales have been set by Audit Scotland or the Accounts Commission in reports. However, it has, I think, become practice to try to give a bit more of an impetus to acceptance and implementation of the recommendations. That is why the report is set out in the way that it is.

The report certainly uncovers some areas where there is a certain level of dissatisfaction, if not concern. Indeed, the very first recommendation talks about “gaps” and a lack of clarity over “roles and responsibilities”. How would you address that criticism?