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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 30 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Richard Leonard

Our principal item of business is consideration of the 2021-22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Ltd. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses. The Auditor General, Stephen Boyle, is joined by Mark Taylor, who is an audit director at Audit Scotland, and Joanne Brown, who is a partner at Grant Thornton UK LLP.

We have quite a number of questions to put to our witnesses this morning. Before we get to those, I ask the Auditor General to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Richard Leonard

I invite Bill Kidd to ask a couple of final questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Richard Leonard

For us, as the Public Audit Committee, the question is not just about the fact that those things happened but that they were allowed to happen. Where was the sponsorship team and where was the Government’s oversight? To me, that seems to be a fundamentally important question.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Richard Leonard

I invite Willie Coffey to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Richard Leonard

So there is a possibility that there could have been a pre-emptive strike. The 2021-22 Scottish Government pay policy guidelines stipulated a minimum 2 per cent pay increase for public sector workers who were earning between £25,000 and £40,000, and it was 1 per cent for those who were earning between £40,000 and £80,000. The payment of a 17.5 per cent bonus was therefore, in anybody’s terms, a significant deviation from the Government’s pay policy.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Richard Leonard

I want to pick up on that point before I bring in Bill Kidd. To go back to the framework agreement, Joanne Brown, you said that it was 12 to 18 months in the making. On pay, the framework agreement talks about maintaining

“regular dialogue with the SG Finance Pay Policy on any proposals with an expectation that these will be broadly consistent with the provisions of SG Pay Policy and Staff Pay Remit. Any significant deviations will require further approval.”

Was that iteration in circulation at the point at which the turnaround director drafted a paper that was approved in February 2022, just a month before the framework agreement, including those clauses, was introduced? Was it a pre-emptive strike by the turnaround director?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

Did you pay for the legal advice that you sought on whether the cases that were dismissed without investigation could be resurrected? Was it your legal advice or was it the Parliament’s?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

We mentioned at the beginning the number of recommendations. You have subdivided some of them, so you are working on 26 recommendations. Based on the Audit Scotland breakdown, there were 22 recommendations, and it was reported to us that 10 had been implemented, 10 were work in progress and two had been set aside or had been overtaken by events and so on.

Can you tell us what progress you are making? Do you accept that breakdown—that analysis that says that around half of the recommendations have been implemented but around half are still work in progress? Is that still a representation that you recognise of where you are as an organisation?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland”

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

That will be good. We are a Public Audit Committee. On the one hand, we do not believe in coincidence and, on the other, we like to see statistical evidence to support arguments that are put before us.

I have another small question. When you replied to Willie Coffey, you mentioned the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. You are, of course, an independent commissioner.

Public Audit Committee

Auditor General for Scotland (Work Programme)

Meeting date: 30 March 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I am conscious of the time, so I encourage members and witnesses to make their questions and answers as concise as possible. I turn to Colin Beattie to ask a couple of questions about digital exclusion.