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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
I am looking at exhibit 2, which is an illustration of significant areas of risk for colleges. One thing that is not mentioned in exhibit 2, which a couple of people who work in the sector have mentioned to me, is European social fund money. As I understand it, there are some potential risks to do with the application of European social fund money, which might go back as far as the funding period 2011 to 2014, which I do not think has yet been signed off or audited by the European Commission. It has certainly been pointed out to me that that is a potential risk that is not stated in the report. Do you have a view on that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you. Part of the committee’s considerations of the next steps will be whether we will seek further evidence from organisations, including the Scottish Funding Council.
My final question very much ties in with the final conclusions of the report. You reminded us that the Scottish Government’s three missions are equality, opportunity and community. In paragraph 28, you concluded:
“A significant reduction in a college’s range of courses, student capacity, or its closure altogether could have an unequal impact on students from more deprived areas”.
Could you elaborate on that point a little bit for us?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Given the rate of increase of the number of colleges that are going into deficit, if that trend was to continue next year, every college would be in deficit, would it not?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
We probably need the current position.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Okay. You cannot be held responsible for when the Scottish Funding Council publishes its report. We understand that.
I invite Willie Coffey to ask some questions. Sharon Dowey may drop in and out of this section as well.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
In paragraph 14 of the briefing, you describe a 70 per cent cut in staffing over a five-year period at Ayrshire College as
“a scenario in which it could no longer function.”
Is it a scenario in which it could no longer function in its present form or is the full stop after “function”?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
That is very helpful. Just for confirmation, do we expect that report to be produced by the Scottish Funding Council before the end of November?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Thank you very much indeed. As you said, it is a briefing and not a full report that makes recommendations but, nonetheless, it contains some very stark warnings. You have already used the word “risks”. One of the warnings is the view that the risks to the college sector’s financial sustainability have increased since 2022. Will you give us an overview of what those risks are, in your view?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 26th meeting in 2023 of the Public Audit Committee. The first item on our agenda is for members of the committee to decide whether to take items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 26 October 2023
Richard Leonard
Agenda item 2 is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s briefing paper, “Scotland’s colleges 2023”. I am pleased to welcome our witnesses: the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle, is joined by—from Audit Scotland—Mark MacPherson, audit director; Tricia Meldrum, senior manager; and Douglas Black, audit manager. You are all very welcome.
Auditor General, feel free to field any of our questions to the most appropriate people on your team. Before we get to the questions, I invite you to make a short opening statement.