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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 30 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you.

10:00  

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay, but the Audit Scotland report came out in February, yet, just two days ago, in this Parliament, the chief executive of NHS Dumfries and Galloway told the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee:

“I have worked in the NHS since the 1980s. I am a finance director by background and I have never seen a position as challenging as this.”

He then went on to speak about

“an existential challenge to our current service models”.

He also said:

“technically, I cannot afford one in 10 of my workforce”.—[Official Report, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, 2 May 2023; c 13-14.]

There is severe pressure on territorial health boards, is there not? It looks a bit more like the picture painted by Audit Scotland than the one that you have painted for us this morning.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. Obviously, as the Public Audit Committee, we are interested in the public accountability of the service, and the only way for us to achieve that is to have the data and that degree of transparency. You might share our frustration, but I re-emphasise to you that we think that it is extremely important, because, for many people, general practice is their access point to the national health service.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Richard Leonard

That pretty much brings us to the close of the session. There are two things in the report that I want to highlight, on which I would welcome your views. One is the agenda for reform. The clear message from the Auditor General is that the level of funding for the NHS is at a record level—£19 billion—yet we continue to see suboptimal outcomes. I guess that the debate about what we need to do to change and reconfigure services is central to that.

Some of this goes back to the Christie commission of over 10 years ago and what it said about having a preventative agenda and taking a broader view of public health, rather than just having a view of the institution of the national health service. That rests on public debate and engagement, so, in closing, it would be useful to find out your perspective on that and what your plans are in that regard.

The other issue is related to that. One of the key recommendations in the report—you said that you accepted the recommendations—was that you publish annual progress updates on service reform. Is it your intention to do that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. A lot of this morning’s discussion will be about the financial pressures on the national health service. Caroline Lamb, you are the accountable officer responsible for £19 billion of public money, so it is quite important that we get an understanding that you are on top of the pressures that you face. I will turn to Craig Hoy, who has some questions to put to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay. If, for example, the NHS Golden Jubilee site is open by the end of the year, how does that compare with when you expected it to be open when the construction work was originally procured?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Richard Leonard

Thanks. I turn to Bill Kidd for the final series of questions.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Richard Leonard

I take it from that that your answer is not yes. Do you accept the recommendation from the Auditor General?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay, thank you.

Another area identified in the Audit Scotland report is the delays to the roll-out of the national treatment centres, which we all understand are critical in regard to tackling waiting times and the backlog. They are critical not just in addressing the immediate pressures but in providing a longer-term route for getting people the treatment that they need. There has been a delay. Can you tell us where we are with the opening of the national treatment centres, some of which were meant to open last year and are still not open?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “NHS in Scotland 2022”

Meeting date: 4 May 2023

Richard Leonard

Earlier, you said that the NHS Forth Valley’s Larbert site treatment centre and the expanded one at NHS Golden Jubilee at Clydebank will be open by the end of the year. Can you give us a definite commitment that, by December 2023, those two centres will be open and receiving patients?