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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 July 2025
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Displaying 3287 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 14th meeting in 2025 of the Public Audit Committee.

Under the first agenda item, members of the committee are invited to decide whether to take agenda items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Do members agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Richard Leonard

But are you the subject of audit by Audit Scotland?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Richard Leonard

They sound very thorough. I will put the same question to Craig Naylor. As a smaller organisation—compared with the Mental Welfare Commission, for example—what is your perspective on the audit, both internal and external? Is it disproportionate? Is it overly burdensome?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Richard Leonard

That is interesting.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Richard Leonard

You form part of the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts, albeit a very small part, presumably.

10:45  

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Richard Leonard

You are under the umbrella of the Scottish public finance manual, and you are the accountable officer as the chief executive of the commission.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Richard Leonard

That is helpful. Julie Paterson, do you think that the audit arrangements with which you have to comply are disproportionate and overly burdensome?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I should preface my remarks by saying that if you appear in front of the Public Audit Committee—which I am the convener of—invariably it is because things have gone wrong. The fact that you have not is probably a reflection on your good performance and conduct.

I was quite taken aback by Julie Paterson’s remark that she and the commission had not given evidence to a Scottish Parliament committee up until now. I am surprised by that, not only because of the quality of the evidence that you have given us this morning but because of the important role that your organisation plays. You referenced your interventions around the discharge of patients into care homes and so on during the pandemic and the compromise of human rights that that entailed. I am really surprised that no parliamentary committee picked up on your role in that and asked you to give evidence on it. That is now on the record, so I am sure that that will be reviewed.

Craig Naylor, you mentioned earlier that you are working with Audit Scotland on a best-value review of policing in Scotland. The Auditor General was in front of the Public Audit Committee this week. He does not come because of bad behaviour; he comes to inform us and help us be illuminated in our work. He was talking about his forward work programme, and he mentioned the work that he is doing with your inspectorate. I think that he said that it is a requirement of the Police and Fire Reform (Scotland) Act 2012 that there has to be a collaborative relationship with you in carrying out a best-value review of the Scottish Police Authority and Police Scotland. Is that correct? Will you tell us a little bit more about how that relationship works?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Richard Leonard

That is interesting, because one of the points that was put to us by the SPCB-supported commissioners was that there could be a shared audit service, rather than each organisation being audited individually. I have to say that I think that an underlying theme was the fee that those organisations pay to Audit Scotland for that pleasure. However, you are under the Scottish Government’s audit process, so you do not have a separate facility.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Julie Paterson referred earlier to the fact that your organisation has an audit, performance and risk committee. Before I come to Julie on that, do you not have something equivalent, John Ireland?