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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 30 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

For reasons of transparency, if it was possible to disentangle any of that in order to understand what the different drivers of inflationary costs were and what was happening to the overall capital settlement, that would be useful. Presumably, it would be useful for local authorities in order to help them to prosecute their arguments for, perhaps, additional funding.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

That is really helpful. Other committee members have questions about financing arrangements and staffing levels, so we will come to those. I now turn now to Craig Hoy.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. We can see that there are staged approaches to the roll-out—by age, for example. It will be interesting to see where that gets to.

We have another question that we want to ask you by way of introduction. You indicate in the report that, roughly speaking, expenditure in the year that you looked at was £1 billion of public money. What is the projected funding figure for future years?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Reflecting on some of your earlier reports, there were concerns about the extent to which the expansion would be fulfilled, because of delays in the provision of new buildings and refurbishment of buildings, and concerns about whether the increased staffing that would be required to deliver the expansion would be met. Therefore, when I read this report, I was quite pleasantly surprised to find that that appears to have happened. We talk about the £1 billion of funding, but is that revenue funding? Does it include the capital investment that has been required to increase capacity in the public sector, for example? Can you break down those different components for us?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Who produced the report on the pilots? Was it produced by the local authorities or by somebody on behalf of the Scottish Government?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Was there quite a wide variance between those different groups of households? One of the stated and agreed public policy objectives of the expansion of early learning and childcare is about increasing levels of economic activity, is it not? If it is not serving the needs of parents and carers who are at work or want to go to work, that is a public policy issue that needs to be addressed, is it not?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Has there been any response yet? Do we know what actions the Scottish Government will take in light of the report on the 10 pilots?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

Yes. Thank you very much. I turn to the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, who has a series of questions to put to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

That is a very clear answer, which is very helpful. Thank you

Willie Coffey has some more questions to put to you.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 report: “Early Learning and Childcare: Progress on delivery of the 1,140 hours expansion”

Meeting date: 15 June 2023

Richard Leonard

We have spoken a little bit already about flexibility and outcomes. One of the expected outcomes that there has, I think, been some measurement of was that the increased provision for pre-school education might lead to parents and carers taking a decision to defer their children going into primary school. On the evidence that you have produced in the report, that does not appear to have happened to the extent that people may have expected. Will you say a little more about that? Do you have any understanding of why that is? Is it a cultural thing? Are there other factors at play that mean that we have not seen the choice, which is there, being made to defer children’s going into primary school?