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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 July 2025
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Displaying 3287 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I will start with the final area that you were talking about, which is the public sector reform agenda, but also place it in the context of the ministerial control framework. Have you undertaken a mapping exercise to consider where different functions sit among the 131 public bodies that are covered by the Scottish Government?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Well, to see whether there is duplication or overlap.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

My question as a member of this committee, however, is whether you have carried out any kind of assessment of whether there is an overlap or duplication when it comes to the purposes of the different public bodies.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

It is not just about whether you can share IT or HR systems; it is also about whether two bodies are, in part, doing coincidental work or have a coincidental purpose.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Richard Leonard

My final question, just for completeness, is this: are you looking at the proportionality of the audit process as part of your assessment of public service reform and whether the landscape is fit for purpose?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Okay, right; thank you. I now invite Stuart McMillan to put some final questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

I will bookend the session by returning to the recommendations. Laura Caven seemed to hesitate a bit in saying whether she accepts the recommendation on having more consistent data nationally, which has been a theme of this morning’s meeting and in the Audit Scotland and Accounts Commission briefing and recommendations.

When Stella Smith was answering one of the questions that Graham Simpson put to her, I was reflecting on the fact that, as well as recommendations, the briefing has suggested timescales for meeting those recommendations. Do you accept the timescales that the Auditor General and Accounts Commission recommend?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

That almost takes us to a full two hours. I place on record the thanks of the committee for your time and input. I thank Joanna Anderson—I apologise that your name was misspelled on your nameplate, Joanna—Suzanne McLeod and Laura Caven from COSLA, and I thank Clair Henderson, Stella Smith and Neil Rennick from the Scottish Government.

With that, I move the committee into private session.

11:29 Meeting continued in private until 12:43.  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

We will get into more detail on this, and I will bring in Colin Beattie in short order, but I just want to be clear on one point. One of the fundamental criticisms that is levelled at the Scottish Government and, I guess, COSLA in the briefing is about the gaps in data. In order to plan, you need evidence, and you need to be able to follow that evidence and to make sure that the resources are being used in the right way.

I presume that data collection, which we will get into in some detail, is entirely within your gift. You could produce data in a way that is consistent across local authorities, which would allow you to form a national picture and understand where the £8 billion-worth of public spending in education services ought to go.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Additional Support for Learning

Meeting date: 7 May 2025

Richard Leonard

Do you therefore accept the criticism that has been levelled at you that you have not effectively planned for that change?