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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 January 2026
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Displaying 3697 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

I will take us back to one of the fundamentals that we have discussed a few times this morning. Do you believe that NHS boards are on track to meet the target of 10 per cent of all front-line spending being on mental health services?

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

In other words, that might mean a shift from some areas of current expenditure in acknowledgment that mental health is a growing issue that should be a central part of the national health service’s work, perhaps in a way in which it has not historically been a part.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Yes. To go back to a point that Graham Simpson made earlier, we recognise that some of the data is required for management purposes, but the committee would strongly support the maximum amount of data being in the public domain so that people can understand what is going on and follow implementation of the policy and delivery of outcomes.

We have come to the end of our evidence session. I thank Alistair Cook, Gavin Gray and Caroline Lamb for being with us this morning. In particular, I thank you for coming to the committee room. Quite a few of our evidence sessions have been with people who have joined us remotely, which is not always easy. You might be surprised to learn that technology sometimes fails, although, on the whole, we have had really good evidence sessions.

Thank you very much for the time that you have given us this morning and for being so willing to answer the questions that we have put to you.

10:39 Meeting continued in private until 11:20.  

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Good morning. Welcome to the 33rd and, I assume, last meeting of the Public Audit Committee in 2023.

The first item on our agenda is a decision on whether to take agenda items 3, 4 and 5 in private. Do we agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Presumably, you concede that taking nearly £30 million out of the budget, on top of taking £38 million out of it last year, will have an impact on services.

Public Audit Committee

Section 23 Report: “Adult mental health”

Meeting date: 14 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. I think that you alluded to it, but, for the record, I ask you whether you accept all the key messages and recommendations in the report.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

So, there will be net savings on the estate by 2025.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay, but it is useful for us, as a commission, to be able to compare one financial year with the next financial year, or apples with apples, so perhaps there is a better way that you could present that information. Can I deduce from what you have told us that the fees that you are charging to Scottish Government departments and sponsored bodies of the Scottish Government are also rising by 6 per cent?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

So, what happens between now and April 2025?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. That would certainly be a useful thing to do.

One of the other areas where I was struggling a bit to make the comparisons and to understand the narrative that is in the submission to us is around the estate strategy. I think that Stuart Dennis might have clarified matters a little for me earlier, but just so that I am clear about this, if I look at the overall figure for property, we are told that there is going to be an estimated financial saving of in the region of £2.2 million over a 10-year period. That is an average saving of £220,000 a year. We are also told in paragraph 78 that the Glasgow accommodation cost rise is in the region of £298,000. I want to make sure that I am comparing apples with apples. That is a one-year figure versus the 10-year figure for the net saving. It is helpful if the units are immediately comparable, but I am not sure that they are in that case. Could you develop that and explain to us what the increased costs are, what the decreased costs are and what the net position is over a one-year, a three-year and a 10-year period?