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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 January 2026
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Displaying 3682 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Adult Disability Payment”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Absolutely.

On that note, I will draw this session to a close. I thank Helen Fogarty and David Wallace, from Social Security Scotland, and Stephen Kerr, Kevin Stevens and the director general for communities, from the Scottish Government. Thank you for giving us the full answers that we were looking for on a range of questions. We will consider what next steps we might want to take as a committee, and we will inform you of those in due course.

Because we are going to change over witnesses, I will suspend the meeting for five minutes.

11:04 Meeting suspended.  

11:09 On resuming—  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scotland’s colleges 2025”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Welcome back, everyone. Agenda item 3 is consideration of the Auditor General’s briefing, “Scotland’s colleges 2025”. I am very pleased that we are joined this morning by the Auditor General, Stephen Boyle. Good morning, Auditor General. Mr Boyle is accompanied by Derek Hoy, who is a senior manager at Audit Scotland, and Ray Buist, who is an audit manager at Audit Scotland, who both worked on the briefing.

Before we put some questions to you, Auditor General, I invite you to make an opening statement.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scotland’s colleges 2025”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed for that introduction. I turn straight away to the deputy convener, Jamie Greene, who has some questions to put to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scotland’s colleges 2025”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much. I will move straight along and invite Graham Simpson to put some questions to you.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scotland’s colleges 2025”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

I am sorry that I am jumping about a bit, but I will take you to paragraph 35, which speaks about the importance of the relationship between a college and the community in which it sits. I cannot help thinking of anywhere except Alloa. Clackmannan College, which was established there in the 1960s, became part of a merged group with a campus in Stirling and the long-standing Falkirk campus. As you alluded to this morning, the Alloa campus is now under threat. In paragraph 35, you describe why the community relationship is so important. Do you want to elaborate on that a bit before I get to another question?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Adult Disability Payment”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

We are short of time, so, instead of going back around the table, I will move things on.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Scotland’s colleges 2025”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Thank you. In appendix 3 of the report, you set out a table of what is happening to full-time equivalent posts by college. The biggest percentage cut in full-time equivalent staff is at the City of Glasgow College. Incidentally, the second biggest cut—we will come on to it—is at Forth Valley College.

Do you have any understanding of why, at the same time as a college is sitting on significant cash reserves, it is also reducing its teaching and non-teaching staff by such a huge number—160-odd people walking out the door within 12 months?

12:15  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Adult Disability Payment”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

When you publish the Government’s response to the report, do you expect there to be some kind of evaluation of the recommendations, the costs associated with them and so on?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Adult Disability Payment”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Last week, Edel Harris said her understanding of “value for money” was that it was to be achieved

“not just through running a very efficient system, but also through the value that something brings to society”.—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 5 November; c 39.]

Is that your perspective as well?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Adult Disability Payment”

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Richard Leonard

Fine. That is helpful. As Edel Harris pointed out to us last week, there is quite a high level of interdependency between the two systems in terms of passporting to benefits, the fiscal framework and how that works, and the Barnett formula. Earlier, Kevin Stevens was able to give us chapter and verse on why the figure may be less because the planned reductions in PIP eligibility were paused. I think that he said they were reversed, but they were paused or halted, anyway. These things are quite important in allowing us to understand that there is at least an attempt at ministerial and possibly at official level to have some influence on that review.