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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

So, what happens between now and April 2025?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. That would certainly be a useful thing to do.

One of the other areas where I was struggling a bit to make the comparisons and to understand the narrative that is in the submission to us is around the estate strategy. I think that Stuart Dennis might have clarified matters a little for me earlier, but just so that I am clear about this, if I look at the overall figure for property, we are told that there is going to be an estimated financial saving of in the region of £2.2 million over a 10-year period. That is an average saving of £220,000 a year. We are also told in paragraph 78 that the Glasgow accommodation cost rise is in the region of £298,000. I want to make sure that I am comparing apples with apples. That is a one-year figure versus the 10-year figure for the net saving. It is helpful if the units are immediately comparable, but I am not sure that they are in that case. Could you develop that and explain to us what the increased costs are, what the decreased costs are and what the net position is over a one-year, a three-year and a 10-year period?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

You are talking about a revenue to capital budget transfer during this financial year to help to meet the cost of that change. How will that be funded in future years? As I understand it, any savings that we get will not really start to accrue until 2025, so it will not be next year but the year after that. Is my interpretation correct?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2024-25

Meeting date: 11 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I want to develop that point.

One of the things that stood out for me was table 2, which shows your budgeted expected income from various public bodies that you charge fees to. If I am reading that table correctly, it says that the proposal is that the audit fees that are charged to further education colleges will rise by 6 per cent, the income generated from the fees charged to local government and the national health service bodies will increase by 8.7 per cent, and the expected fee income from central Government bodies—Scottish Government departments and sponsored bodies—is projected to decline by 1.3 per cent. What is the strategy that lies behind that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

One of the areas in the report that we are usually very interested in—and we are again, on this occasion—is Scottish Government investment in private companies. I invite Willie Coffey to get us under way on that section.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Yes, of course. Before we leave that particular issue, as you relayed to us, Auditor General, the Lord Advocate has given a commitment to more public accountability and some form of “process of inquiry”—I think that that was the expression that was used—on the conclusion of the litigation. I suppose that two things arise from that. First, do you have any sense of when the litigation will be concluded? Secondly, do you know what the Lord Advocate means by a “process of inquiry”?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

As a committee, we still have outstanding requests for access to that information and for as much of it as possible to be put into the public domain. We recognise that there probably are commercial sensitivities around some of the information, and we do not want to compromise the yard’s position in any way, but our position remains that there must be maximum transparency. I will not ask you to comment on that, unless you want to.

Another area that has been of routine concern to the committee—again, it is mentioned in your report—relates to the arrangements concerning the Lochaber aluminium smelter, which is owned by the Liberty Group, which is owned by the GFG Alliance, to which there are various subsidiary parts. In exhibit 2, you state:

“There continues to be uncertainty regarding the financial stability of GFG Alliance”.

Would you care to elaborate on that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Okay—go on then.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

Thank you. Of course, the progress that we are making towards the net zero targets and decarbonisation remains central to the considerations of the Public Audit Committee.

On that note, I thank you, Auditor General, and I thank Richard, Helen and Carole, for the evidence that you have given us this morning. It has been very useful, as always. It has triggered some potential areas into which we might dig a little deeper, and it has given us plenty of information to consider if and when we have an evidence session with the permanent secretary. Thank you very much.

I now move the committee into private session.

10:57 Meeting continued in private until 11:21.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 7 December 2023

Richard Leonard

It is a simple question, Auditor General; it is a yes or no question.