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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Well, pretty much every item is categorised. For example, there is one here called “Taxation: A Very Short Introduction” and another called “Marx: A Very Short Introduction”. Both are listed as

“Appropriate under current policy - recommended to review policy exclusions and out of scope expenditure moving forward.”

What does that mean?

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Good morning. I welcome everyone to the second meeting in 2024 of the Public Audit Committee.

The first item on the committee’s agenda is a decision on whether to take agenda items 3 and 4 in private. Do we agree to take those items in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Public Audit Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

I note that the deputy convener, Sharon Dowey, joins us online this morning.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

The principal agenda item is consideration of the Auditor General for Scotland’s section 22 report on the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts. I am particularly pleased to welcome our witnesses, who are the most senior team from the Scottish Government. The permanent secretary, John-Paul Marks, joins us, and is very welcome. The director general economy, Gregor Irwin, is also here. Jackie McAllister, who is the chief financial officer, and Alison Cumming, who is the director for budget and public spending in the Scottish Government, also join us.

We have quite a wide range of questions to put to you this morning, permanent secretary, but, before we get to those, I invite you to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much, indeed, permanent secretary, for that introduction, which covers many of the areas that we want to speak to you about. I want to take you back to one of the fundamental, key messages from the Auditor General’s report on the Scottish Government’s consolidated accounts. He said:

“The delivery of public services in their current form is not affordable”.

How do you react to that?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

I think that Graham Simpson wants to come in on a couple of those points, and I have a couple of questions, too.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

You mentioned the block grant. There has just been a renegotiation of the fiscal framework. Are you satisfied with the outcome of the renegotiation?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

I have a question just for the record, because something is not entirely clear to me from my reading of the accompanying note that goes with the table of purchases. The note refers to the fact that the monthly limit on the UK Government e-card is £10,000, whereas the Scottish Government limit has been £25,000 per month. It talks about alignment. Can you confirm whether the Scottish Government monthly limit for e-card use will come into line with the UK Government level of £10,000?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

That is fine—you accept the conclusions. We will ask questions to get into a bit more of the detail of some aspects of those in the time that remains.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 18 January 2024

Richard Leonard

For the avoidance of doubt, that is a long-standing request from the committee, dating back to 2016. I think that the committee was promised it in fairly short order at that time, but here we are, almost eight years later, and there is no sign of it.

Just to be clear, we are not asking for that as a matter of curiosity or because of some kind of hobbyist interest. We think that it is really important, as does the Auditor General, that we understand what we own and what we owe. Individual components of the public sector are, of course, expected to provide audited accounts so that we can see what they own and what they owe. All that we are requesting is that we get something similar across the whole of the public sector in Scotland.

We recognise that there have been obstacles to that and that there is the latest series of obstacles that are outwith your control. I think that you described that in the letter that you sent to us, permanent secretary, but I want to reaffirm the store that we set by that and the importance that we attach to it being tackled urgently. The language of the Auditor General continues to be that that is a deficiency that needs to be addressed with some urgency.