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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 November 2025
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Displaying 3519 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Good.

Can I turn now to the vexed subject of the Scottish courts custody prisoner escorting services contract—SCCPES—which goes beyond simply escorting people backwards and forwards to court, does it not? It goes into health appointments and so on, which again you have alluded to.

When I was preparing for today, I read your annual report as a reference point. It came out in September 2023, and in it you covered some of your concerns about that. You said that there have been some “serious issues” with prison transport, which “remains a key concern.” It feels as though you have gone a bit further this morning, chief inspector; you said that it is truly shocking.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Richard Leonard

We might prefer the former rather than the latter, but anyway.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Are you talking specifically about the situation in England? Audit Scotland’s representative told us that it is a much tighter contract there; it only involves transporting people backwards and forwards to court and is not about taking people to family funerals or NHS appointments.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Will that be part of the consideration of your thematic review of prisoner transport?

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Willie Coffey has a question in that area.

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Richard Leonard

The committee might invite the accountable officer from the Government to explain why the group has not been convened.

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you, Willie. I turn to the deputy convener, Jamie Greene, who has a final question or two.

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Thank you very much indeed. That draws to a close our evidence session on Audit Scotland’s briefing paper on the national economic strategy. I thank the Auditor General for his evidence and Cornilius Chikwama for his contribution. I also thank Catherine Young and Kirsty Ridd.

I now move the meeting into private session.

11:07 Meeting continued in private until 11:32.  

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Richard Leonard

Agenda item 2 is consideration of the section 22 report, “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”, and I am delighted to welcome to the meeting Wendy Sinclair-Gieben, His Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons for Scotland.

We have some questions that we would like to put to you, Wendy. However, before we get to them, I invite you to make a short opening statement.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Richard Leonard

We will have more questions about the estate later.

I want to pick up on something that feels almost counterintuitive to me and which we have, I think, previously taken evidence on. If a person is on remand, they are more likely to be locked up for longer. That is still the case, is it not?