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Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 31 October 2024
Richard Leonard
Are you saying that you accept that finding or that you do not accept it?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 31 October 2024
Richard Leonard
So do you now have detailed actions? Have you designated who is responsible for them? Do you have timescales and monitoring arrangements?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 31 October 2024
Richard Leonard
Mr Huggins, you spoke earlier about “a major success story” but, on the subject of digital exclusion, I infer from what you said that you think that it is the ageing population that is digitally excluded and that, over time, that will diminish, as though you think that people are going to die off and the problem will go away. However, that is not what the report says, is it? It says that age is a factor—of course it is, and everybody understands that—but the introduction to the report says:
“Digital exclusion is strongly associated with poverty and people with certain protected characteristics.”
My question is for the director general. What is the Scottish Government’s position? Is it that you think that the problem will diminish over time because older people are going to die, or do you see that there is a real and present issue because of people’s impoverishment and protected characteristics, which will continue to exist and to be a challenge, and on which the Government needs to show some leadership?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 31 October 2024
Richard Leonard
Okay—thank you. I will bring in Colin Beattie next.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 31 October 2024
Richard Leonard
Good morning and welcome to the 26th meeting in 2024 of the Public Audit Committee. Our first agenda item is to consider whether to take items 3 and 4 in private. Is that agreed?
Members indicated agreement.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 31 October 2024
Richard Leonard
If I were to go to a local authority in the area that I represent, would I find that it had already mapped local resources and produced an overview of the third, public and private sectors?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 31 October 2024
Richard Leonard
Okay. Other committee members want to come in, so I will bring in Graham Simpson for one quick question before I turn to the deputy convener.
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 31 October 2024
Richard Leonard
Let us not deal with generalities, then; let us deal with specifics. In paragraphs 35 and 36 of the report—I remind you that it was published just in August of this year, so it is quite recent—it says:
“The joint digital strategy lacks a clear plan and accountability and is now to be refreshed amidst difficult public finances”.
It continues:
“The Scottish Government and COSLA joint strategy lacks a delivery plan that sets out the detailed actions that are needed, who is responsible for them, and timescales or monitoring arrangements.”
How do you respond to that?
Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 31 October 2024
Richard Leonard
I am afraid that we have run out of time. I thank our witnesses Lesley Fraser, Geoff Huggins, Eilidh McLaughlin and Martyn Wallace for the evidence that they have given us and the response that they have given to the Audit Scotland and Accounts Commission report on tackling digital exclusion. We will consider our next steps but, for the time being, I thank them again.
I move this morning’s committee meeting into private session.
10:31 Meeting continued in private until 10:50.Public Audit Committee
Meeting date: 31 October 2024
Richard Leonard
We are about to enter the final stretch of this morning’s evidence session. I want to get some clarification on something that came up in the evidence session that we had with the Auditor General and the Accounts Commission. It is on the issue of the blue badge, which is highlighted in the report as being almost emblematic of where there might be an issue around digital exclusion. In answer to a question that I put to the Auditor General, he said:
“It feels that there is a contradiction between the population that is likely to need to access that service and the mechanism through which they are required to do that by public services.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 5 September 2024; c 19.]
One of the three major pillars of the Verity house agreement is about person-centred public services. This is a kind of test of that, is it not? Martyn Wallace, do you want to come back on that?